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HMWTC: Zoomies on walkies…
Yes. I’m here to beg for help. I’m a pro trainer, dog walker and pet sitter with almost 9 years behind me on the last two.
I recently adopted Joy, a 9 month old yellow Lab pup, on Labor Day from a local Lab rescue. She’s sweet, sunny, silly, exuberant, not a mean bone in her body…
Her walks by her former owner (a retired disabled veteran training her as a service dog from an app) were on head harness. As the foster transitioned her to us, we did a walk and he demo’d this.
I made a vow to Joy that very day that she would never need to use that again. Only sniffy walks, plenty of walks daily, hikes in forest preserves, good times and smooth sailing ahead…
Well, the first month went smoothly, except for the sidewalk snacking habit. I grabbed more things out of that big yap than I’d like to say. I taught her a solid Drop It cue, first thing. She’s gotten quite good at it and sometimes will pick things up and then spit them out to show me! Makes me laugh…
But, she started to get the desire to do what I imagine are: zoomies. She’s 73 pounds. I am excellent managing the leash and keeping it loose, marking and rewarding all the great things on walks like eye contact, checkins, walking near me…she made such progress coming off that head harness…
I put her on an Easy Walk harness I had left over from a client. She likes to carry that in her mouth like a toy, around the house, we’ve conditioned her wearing it, but she doesn’t love it.
I have been at it, since these started in late October, and now there’s only occasional sidewalk snacking, but these zoomies outbursts usually happen when she has finished doing her business, after a stick or two has peaked her interest (I don’t mind her carrying or disassembling sticks on our walks: doggie behavior). When we are close to 3/4 of the way home (any route, I vary that based on where she or I want to go)…THAT is when it begins.
I videoed the start of it. Go ahead and laugh. What happened before? We had crossed a street and started heading back home, although we were far enough away for her to know. Something weird you’ll see: I started walking her yesterday on my hands-free Atlas leash, not to be hands free, but so that she doesn’t feel that swish-swish and give and take pull from the leash between handler and dog, which I thought could be a contributing factor! (Sorry if this all sounds completely crazy!) It was my BF’s suggestion, and I’m trying whatever I can. She just started grabbing the leash in her mouth…I also predicted that so I used her old leash, clipped onto my waist leash, in case “tug” is what she needs/wants…I think I made it worse and she ends up driving me completely insane.
I don’t want to mention that I impulsively let it get the best of me and was trying to unwind her from the leash (it wrapped around her front leg) and she started biting/mouthing at my hands so I smacked her on the nose! Ugh!!! I’m feeling like a complete novice and once I got her untangled, clipped her back onto her own leash, wrapped that around my trunk and told her, “too bad” and performed deep breathing exercises of my own while I purposefully beelined for home with her in tow…I quick wiped paws and walked her upstairs to her kennel…no toys, only said, “time out”…
She’s been there over 20 minutes. I wanted to let her out sooner, keep it short, but I’m so angry with myself. I help others with leash walking, never met a dog I couldn’t transition from an aversive tool…now I’m ready to cry and admit defeat and go back to the head harness for our next walk.
SOS!!!????
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14 Replies
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Do not dispair, @bernerlabreclectus . The community is here to help! Thanks for sharing the details and video. Your honest post also highlights the fact that a head halter is just a management tool and, once removed, most dogs don’t automatically know how to maintain their loose leash behavior.
Okay, so first a couple questions:
- Can you get her a bit of aerobic exercise, maybe 20 min. BEFORE the walk?
- How does she behave during equipment donning? (You’ll need to work on calm behavior right there, if there’s silliness before the walk even starts.)
- Is she able to exit the house calmly? If not, there’s another area to work. Walks must begin with calm behavior.
Next, equipment-related thoughts:
- I would humbly suggest you consider a switch from Easy Walk (which may feel a bit uncomfortable/restrictive horizontally across her lower chest) to a different design, like Freedom Harness.
- Temporarily, consider a short, lightweight chain leash for the first section of your overall leash to take the fun out of mouthing the leash, and thus buying some important training times.
- In the moment when Joy is tugging on a leash, try placing your hand on her collar to hold her, thus preventing the continuation of tug. Be quiet, calm, resolute until the tugging ends. Then release. Prepare to reapply. No treats when she lets go of leash.
- If your frustration level is super-high at the moment, consider temporarily using a Outfox Field Guard, which will prevent Joy from picking up taboo items or tugging on the leash. It’s just to buy you a bit of time to drill down on training.
Next, I’m very familiar with some clients’ dogs who would begin shenanigans when they recognized the walk was coming to an end, i.e., when they were heading back home. In some cases, that feels punishing to a dog who is not ready for the fun to end. My clients have addressed this successfully in a few possible ways:
- Some kind of fun game/play occurs upon return to property
- A yummy food puzzles awaits back home
- Temporarily, walks should include a great deal of doubling back, i.e., you leave property, then head back, with a heavier load of treats happening on the return; rinse and repeat
A few other random thoughts:
- I personally would not use tug as a reinforcer during walks right now, even when directed on an appropriate item. If she needs some excitement, I’d personally use treat-chases instead.
- Does she have any favorite object/toy that she might be willing to carry during the walk?
- If/when zoomie happens, I’d try to step on the leash fast, close enough to her to limit movement options. (If you put a knot in the leash at a key spot, it’ll help to keep it from sliding under your foot.) Hold fast and calm and quiet until it stops, then release. No treat. Just the release.
- Where/when does Joy have access to safe/off-leash freedom?
You got this, Paula!
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@virginad
Thank you so much for trying to help me so quickly! I wipe everything down in the hopes of getting some things today.
Here’s your questions and my answers will follow, with a ????:
(YOUR QUESTIONS) Okay, so first a couple questions:
- Can you get her a bit of aerobic exercise, maybe 20 min. BEFORE the walk? ???? what type of exercise? I don’t have a fenced yard available yet. Would that mean a flirt pole play time, fetch indoors, etc?
- How does she behave during equipment donning? (You’ll need to work on calm behavior right there, if there’s silliness before the walk even starts.) ???? YES! She’s a very good girl and lets me call her with a Touch hand target, sits or stands calmly while donning harness and leash, then a solid Wait, at the door.
- Is she able to exit the house calmly? If not, there’s another area to work. Walks must begin with calm behavior. ???? YES! She came to me with a solid Wait cue installed, which I use exiting house and car, before eating her food, and while I put on my winter clothing (so she doesn’t take my stuff or knock me out with her big melon)…I’ve also used Wait with her after she poops and I need to bag it.
Next, equipment-related thoughts:
- I would humbly suggest you consider a switch from Easy Walk (which may feel a bit uncomfortable/restrictive horizontally across her lower chest) to a different design, like Freedom Harness. ???? Happy to try this. @pawsup suggested the blue9 Balance harness, so I think I’ll try that one. Budget is super tight right now, but I received an amazon gc, whee!????
- Temporarily, consider a short, lightweight chain leash for the first section of your overall leash to take the fun out of mouthing the leash, and thus buying some important training times. ???? should the entire leash be chain, or do you know of any particular leash suggestions you could share?
- In the moment when Joy is tugging on a leash, try placing your hand on her collar to hold her, thus preventing the continuation of tug. Be quiet, calm, resolute until the tugging ends. Then release. Prepare to reapply. No treats when she lets go of leash. ????I have collar grabbed, but I try to remain calm and she gets my goat. She also isn’t always great about not trying to mouth my arm, when I try, but I’ll see if I can keep my own emotional state at bay with deep breathing.
- If your frustration level is super-high at the moment, consider temporarily using an Outfox Field Guard, which will prevent Joy from picking up taboo items or tugging on the leash. It’s just to buy you a bit of time to drill down on training. ????I will check this out immediately! Thank you!
Next, I’m very familiar with some clients’ dogs who would begin shenanigans when they recognized the walk was coming to an end, i.e., when they were heading back home. In some cases, that feels punishing to a dog who is not ready for the fun to end. My clients have addressed this successfully in a few possible ways:
- Some kind of fun game/play occurs upon return to property ???? she would love this, I will try!
- A yummy food puzzles awaits back home ????I got a donation from former client of misc. puzzles. I will preload a few today! She also loves her Toppls and Pupsicles, so I will enlist those!
- Temporarily, walks should include a great deal of doubling back, i.e., you leave property, then head back, with a heavier load of treats happening on the return; rinse and repeat. ????OMD…such a fabulous idea. Goodness, you’re the BEST! Why didn’t I think of this; similar to recall practice not always meaning “fun is over” or Drop It meaning you’re taking the item away permanently. Duh!-(at myself) ????
A few other random thoughts:
- I personally would not use tug as a reinforcer during walks right now, even when directed on an appropriate item. If she needs some excitement, I’d personally use treat-chases instead. ???? OKAY! I appreciate this recommendation and won’t try out again. I feel personally offering her her old leash as a tug item just confused her.
- Does she have any favorite object/toy that she might be willing to carry during the walk? ???? She does, but I’ll have to see if she will carry and walk. Lots of times she seems to drop it if we leave the house. This was initially how I trained polite leash greetings with her, bc of her under socialization in her first 9 months of service dog training, she wanted to greet new people (like me) with a hard mouth on the arm, always in a happy/exuberant way. We have worked on this lots and a ball or toy in the mouth usually helps, but not always…getting better and better though.
- If/when zoomie happens, I’d try to step on the leash fast, close enough to her to limit movement options. (If you put a knot in the leash at a key spot, it’ll help to keep it from sliding under your foot.) Hold fast and calm and quiet until it stops, then release. No treat. Just the release. ????I am a dead-end leash afficianato, but it is difficult with her, because she is strong and fast. I will think about trying it again with the knot!
- Where/when does Joy have access to safe/off-leash freedom? ???? This is a huge problem! I know this. Because we have no fenced yard, I know she’s super frustrated. I have an open invite from a past client to come use her fenced yard anytime…I will check with her today, if this offer still stands. She has dogs of her own, but works a night shift and said that I can come in and use her yard and agility equipment with any dogs I might like to in a class toe setting, which I never felt was appropriate (so I haven’t!) but I think with my own dog it would work. I should just ask about immunizations of her dogs…I’ve also researched Sniffspot, but I think they recently changed things and you have to buy credits instead of the hourly fee it used to be, a membership of sorts. Not sure I can afford. My bf and I talked also about possibilities of dog day care (he’s fervently against it and I am not hot on that either) and the local members-only dog park I used to take my past dogs to. But my Berner had a horrible experience with a sheepdog grabbing him by the throat, so I don’t think that’s an option either! Lots of unattended dogs.
You got this, Paula!
Virginia???? I REALLY appreciate you and your thoughtful responses and questions! She is such an awesome and sweet dog, just 13 months old and just spayed! I’m sure there is a huge change in her, due to hysterectomy. Both my bf and I talked about this today and are empathetic. Thank you, THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!????
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Very helpful info. Some more thoughts below, @bernerlabreclectus —
Can you get her a bit of aerobic exercise, maybe 20 min. BEFORE the walk? what type of exercise? I don’t have a fenced yard available yet. Would that mean a flirt pole play time, fetch indoors, etc?
Sounds like it needs to be indoors — how about trying ‘find it’ games with favorite toys and treats hidden around the house. It’ll work her nose and brain and her body a bit too.
Temporarily, consider a short, lightweight chain leash for the first section of your overall leash to take the fun out of mouthing the leash, and thus buying some important training times. should the entire leash be chain, or do you know of any particular leash suggestions you could share?
With a little ingenuity, you use a double-ended bolt snap to clip one end of a large choke chain collar to her harness, and then clip your leash to the other end. I just saw some on Tractor Supply and they can be from 18″ to 28″ long!
I have collar grabbed, but I try to remain calm and she gets my goat. She also isn’t always great about not trying to mouth my arm, when I try, but I’ll see if I can keep my own emotional state at bay with deep breathing.
Practice the collar grabs combined with stiff arm at non-arousing times first and reward her for calmly settling into this. Then gradually incorporate into slightly more arousing scenarios before using on the walk.
I hope you’ll be able to arrange some off-leash time for her. I think it’d be a huge help. Personally, I’d be a bit worried about daycare, i.e., aside from the potential for injury, will it just jazz her up even more…?
And don’t knock yourself for not coming up with a specific idea yourself. It is SO hard when we’re training with our own dogs. All objectivity often flies out the window!
Rooting for you and Joy. Keep us posted!
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We are making progress!
I’ve had the pleasure of chatting with you, Virginia, and Krista! Thank you both for all the input. I’d love to hear other ideas and brainstorms for Joy’s on-leash zoomies! Please…whenever!
So:
Here’s what’s working so far. I ditched the Easy Walk harness. I’m hoping to invest in a Blue 9 Balance harness soon. Joy is doing well on her regular flat collar. The Easy Walk was possibly restricting her natural movement and she was becoming sensitive to the leash brushing against her occasionally.
I’m exercising her (when possible to plan ahead) for 5-10 minutes of flirt pole play, or training. When she looks settled, we suit up to go for a walk.
I’m using Cheerios as my main treat on walks ( she still loves them, such a Lab!) Also taking kibble or dried salmon, to mix it up and keep the high value in the mix.
I start out with a Wsit at the door, and mark and reward add we make our way out the garage to the driveway…throwing in hand targeting to keep her checking in and under threshold.
She doesn’t pee usually until 1 block away…we have sidewalks, but if she starts getting amped, I move into the street. She seems to enjoy running around in areas of grass that seem wide or large. So, I Skip over areas she used to get zoomies in, keeping her in more narrow lots.
I try to keep breathing nice and fluidly myself and keep that leash very loose. I stop and wait for her to check in with me if she gets too far ahead.
It’s only been 5 or 6 walks, and she still gets witchy at times, but if so, I calmly and silently reel myself over to her, collar grab without judgment and wait for her to settle a bit. I’ve had to do this 1-3 times, but usually get her back to me with a Find It treat toss (for calmness) and a few Touches, to get her in with me again…
I try to go back and forth, going away from house, and returning, then crossing street, so that the coming home doesn’t feel so “fun is over”. We also celebrate coming home with treats tossed like a piñata or just tossing them to her to catch in midair…she can have any sticks she finds, as long as she doesn’t try to eat them or stab them at me, LOL!
We head inside and she gets a food puzzle or Pupsicle! I praise her the whole way upstairs so she knows WHY she’s getting it.
These are just a handful of ways I’m trying to change the walks. It’s progress, not perfection.
Thank you all again!!! @virginiad @pawsup You are both AMAZING!!!
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Thanks for the update, @bernerlabreclectus — sounds like you’re moving in the right direction and I’m looking forward to more updates.
Just wanted to check on one thing you wrote:
“It’s only been 5 or 6 walks, and she still gets witchy at times, but if so, I calmly and silently reel myself over to her, collar grab without judgment and wait for her to settle a bit. I’ve had to do this 1-3 times, but usually get her back to me with a Find It treat toss (for calmness) and a few Touches, to get her in with me again…”You’re not initiating Find It or Touch when she shows early signs of “witchy” behavior, right? You don’t want to accidentally reinforce that with the opportunity to engage in R+ training. If, however, you’re offering those training opportunities while she’s still behaving appropriately, that’s wonderful!
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No, I meant that I use Touch or Find It on the walk when she’s not witchy. Sometimes, if after she’s settled from the collar grab, we take a few steps and I call her back to Touch, then mark and reward that!
I played fetch indoors with her for 10 minutes before one of our shorter walks. The afternoon walk started as a complete bust, because we got 1-1/2” of Annie overnight…she LOVES the snow. Just seeing it, she started running and collar grabs, be darned! Luckily, we were across the street from our home, so I calmly walked her (in collar grab mode) across the street and got my long line out. We went into the (unfenced) back yard and told her OK! It took her a few minutes to decide to move.
I don’t have her in the back yard much. Mostly, because she usually just wants to eat rabbit poop or sticks and has no interest in pottying at all.
This time, snow covered ground kept her interest on the top layer of snow. So, since garbage day was this morning and it was super windy, I ended up with tons of other people’s recycling in my back yard. She found a large empty container of plain yogurt…that became the fun toy, since the wind was still playing with it.
I’m sending video clips…lots of fun. The last few times I’ve done long line stuff with her, one, she yanked me right off my feet because I was not paying attention…another time, she got zoomies in a field and almost took me down. The yard was perfect, because I have a large pine tree in the center, which I can use to break the force off the running by winding around it.
Hope you like the videos. I set my phone timer for 30 minutes and she even ended up going pee and pooping, after I prompted her to “go potty” (like I say on walks, though it doesn’t always happen. She looked at me and squatted awhile…then went the other way, too!
When I brought her back inside afterwards, she came upstairs and settled down for a long nap. ☺️ Yay!
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Woo hoo — yogurt container for the win!!! Loved watching Joy play. ☺
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@bernerlabreclectus LOVE these videos – the IMP! She’s clearly baiting you… Don’t you want to chase her and try to take it!? lol – Good on you for remaining neutral and just letting her play. I might add some retreives/trades/drop it practice, then give her back the container, just so you can engage with her and build fluency where you might need it in a different context.
Also, a note on safety… since you mentioned how fast/strong she’s zooming on the long line. If you need a tree-wrapped line to stop her, the amount of force on her neck when she hits the end will be significant. I know you’re saving for a harness… perhaps consider prioritizing that for long line wearing since it will be a lot safer for her to hit the end of the line wearing a harness than a collar.
She seems like a lot of fun, and I’m so glad you are sharing your journey with her, here.
All the best for the new year!
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Hi Paula, Ah, adolescence, ain’t it great. And for Labs, “teenage” is a really long time. haha.
So, I once had a client with a mouthy Lab who NEEDED to grab people to say hello. We initiated a rule that he couldn’t approach people unless he brought them a toy which tapped into his inner retriever… problem solved. I’ve seen a pro trainer with a Malinois use the same trick. The only way we can walk together is if you carry this thing. All the time. It worked for them.
I like the idea of redirecting the behavior she feels she needs to do. Even as large and strong as she is, I bet you can hold your ground til she picks up her toy. If she’s holding the toy, she can’t be pulling on the leash. Tease her with it, toss it, and start to move. The pride of carrying the reward is real.
Meanwhile, absolutely give her the off-lead time where you can. That’s the real need here. She’s young and needs to run it out. (I’m with you on avoiding the dog park unless you can find a large one where there’s fewer people.) If you can’t do the off-lead space every day then a long line will have to do. More freedom, not less. And pay those check ins with chicken!
You can also work her big muscles without being off lead. Get out your bosu ball and other PT stuff and get her working on rear end, balance and microshaping core exercises. Working her brain and big muscles will settle her in!
Virginia gave you a ton of other great ideas, so this is all I can think of to add.
You’ve got this!
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@catherine thank you for your amazing input! I do already cue her, before going over threshold when meeting people, to “Get your toy”, which means anything Joy-appropriate (used to include leash or harness, balls, stuffies, whatever she knew she could have.) I started this early on, because of her mouth-greetings with new people. So, I could add value to the hold, for sure, increasing duration. Maybe I should encourage the hold of the toy indoors first?
Also, such a cool idea about the BOSU ball and tiring her muscles doing canine movement-exercise indoors. I don’t have a BOSU, but will consider investing in one soon. I also want to work on heel work indoors this winter, including more precision heeling…she really does love to pay attention, so I think she’ll enjoy it.
Thanks again for all the encouraging words! I got her some long line exercise in the back yard (see my reply to Virginia’s last post above, with videos). It was only 30 minutes, but man, she was out cold afterwards! I also played fetch indoors with her twice today, once it was the only activity, the second time, it was my set breaks in a 20 min body weight circuit I was trying to accomplish.
She is truly “Joy,” in canine form. ????
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Hi Paula,
You don’t have to go buy a Bosu ball. I only mentioned it because my brain had a false memory that you already had one. I thought you had mentioned having some PT equipment in the past? In any case, you can use what you already have.
Teach her to put her back feet up on a low platform. Teach her to Bow. Teach her to Sit UP (Beg) – that’s a GREAT core strengthener. Teach her to sit tightly on a small 1-step stool that has just enough room for her hocks and paws (I add traction tape to prevent slipping). Teach her to Crawl, Spin, Back Up, Jump On/Off and you’ve got a lot of big muscle movements you can do indoors. Plus, earn your trick dog title. lol
Regarding the toy hold, my guess is if you wiggle the toy and encourage her to carry it, her instincts will kick in; you likely won’t need much indoor proficiency before taking it on the road. But give it a try and let us know. 😀
Enjoy every moment, and just like human teens, remember it’s all over too quickly!
Thanks for letting us join you on the journey!
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I see the great ideas already given!
We all get stuck sometimes with our own dogs, don’t feel mad, bad or frustrated (easier said than done I know!) I agree with you that we can train everyone else’s dog but ours! I think it is because we are more emotionally attached and look at them with a different lens. I know I second guessed all the time with mine or relatives.
I am glad you are already seeing some progress. You DO have this!
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That means so much to me, @jenz ! It’s so great to hear that I’m not alone in feeling mystified by my teenager. I remember feeling that way, at times, with my human teenagers. But, I was not a teacher, so I didn’t think too much of it. Being a dog trainer/walker, I had hoped that I could figure out these leash zoomies on my own.
But I know there’s never any shame in sharing here, at CATCH Community! It helps to have friends, like you, Virginia, Krista and Catherine to be sounding boards and I appreciate all the “you got this!” Sentiments!!! Thank you, thank you so much! Hope you and yours are doing great things!
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