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7 year old GSD attacking a 4 month GSD puppy
I started working today with a family that has a 7 year old GSD and a 4 month GSD puppy. The older dog has attacked the puppy. The puppy has a kennel inside the house and when he is put in the kennel the older GSD will come up and sniff the pup and will sometimes lay right outside the kennel. I am thinking he is guarding the kennel so the pup does not get out. Just a thought. The older dog plays well with other dogs. The older dog has an eye condition and is loosing his sight. Not sure if this may have something to do with it. I started some desensitization with them today giving them both treats at a distance that did not have a reaction. They muzzled the larger GSD because he is so big and strong they can not hold him when on leash. When I had them separated the older dog did not make any aggressive move toward the pup until I moved closer and then he gave a hard stare. I then backed him up. They had the clothe muzzle on the larger dog. I suggested they get a basket muzzle because it was difficult for him to take the treats.
The other thing is the older GSD will only eat home made treats (chicken jerky). I suggested that they do not give him any of those treats unless he is in the prescence of the puppy to see if we can associate the pup with the chicken jerky.
The puppy is a friendly and playful. At one time the owners had used Barkbusters and the older GSD had a prong collar. Looking for more ideas.
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13 Replies
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@Nick Thanks for bringing this topic. I moved it here to “Other Dog Topics” so more members could see it and help out. I’ll give folks a chance to reply before I jump in. This is an interesting case and I’m glad you are trusting it to our community.
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This is a tough one @Nick . I’ve had a few cases in the past with similar issues happening.
You’ve got some good techniques going with them already, like having the older dog muzzled for safety and advising your clients that his favorite treat should only occur when he’s around the puppy.
One counter-conditioning technique I’ve used in the past is “puppy gets treat while older dog sees – older dog gets treat one half-second behind puppy.” So essentially, puppy is fed (or fussed over or pet) and then the older dog is given a treat, praise, or pet (whatever’s most motivating to that dog). The other criteria of course is having appropriate distance between the two so the older dog is relatively calm.
What I want the dog to understand, quite simply, is that “when this dog gets something good, it predicts me getting something good!” My criteria at this point is pretty low – the older dog merely needs to see the younger one get the goodie and then is immediately given the reward. At this point I’m not as concerned with what the older dog is doing in terms of reaction; I simply want to start building the association that the puppy makes good things appear.
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Good idea with the basket muzzle, Nick! That will help with food delivery.
Cait’s got a good association idea there ^^ and similar to two techniques I’ve also used.
1 – Patricia McConnell calls it “Belle of the Ball” where the dogs are fed one at a time, starting at opposite ends of the room if necessary, with two handlers, and then as they relax into the game, they can be moved closer. One gets a treat, the other gets a treat. The order can be mixed up, but basically, the rule is that we say the dog’s name first and then feed. By alternating, they learn that when treats happen, they will be paid for waiting their turn.
2. The other idea is what I call “puppy tax”. ( You are already on this, by the sounds of it, @Nick )I had a working dog handler friend who had gotten a young puppy when the resident older dog *hated* puppies. She needed to start training the new replacement dog and that older dog *KNEW IT* and absolutely resented it. I had her put the older dog behind a protected area -in this case, a gated room – and give it a very high value long time chew. She chose a packed frozen Kong sometimes and a fresh, meaty beef knuckle other times. The older dog ONLY got that super high value thing when the young pup was taken out to be trained. Soon, he started looking forward to watching “mom” take the puppy out because YUM was on the way! Later, they became friends.
3. A bonus idea – and one that came to me after re-reading your post. It’s very probable that older dog has pain. Often they mask it but a young bouncy pup would be seen as a threat to that older dog’s comfort. I would recommend they have a senior medical panel and health check specifically looking for causes of pain in joints, etc. I know when I’m sore, I don’t want any hooligans bumping into me!
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Thanks for the great responses.
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Thanks for bringing the question @Nick ! Please keep us posted on this case’s progress. We are here to support you and your clients.
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Hi @Nick something that stood out to me was that both dogs should have a safe space that they can go to get away from everything and not be disturbed. Like the puppy should be able to go to it’s crate and not feel trapped or get intimidated and the senior should be able to do the same, get away from it all without having a youngster pestering or triggering an aggressive behavior. Management, lots of management, and avoiding letting the issues get worse. So if the dogs can’t be supervised they should, in my opinion, be separated to ensure safety and that your training will have the full effect intended.
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…both dogs should have a safe space that they can go to get away from everything and not be disturbed. Like the puppy should be able to go to its crate, and not feel trapped or get intimidated and the senior should be able to do the same; get away from it all, without having a youngster pestering or triggering an aggressive behavior. – Greg G.
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Hi @Nick . Late to this thread…how are things going with these dog’s?
Few things came to mind as I read this. (1) how long have they had the puppy, (2) how did they introduce?
Not sure how big the space is in the house too, but if the older one is having some aggressive tendencies in the house, the puppy might just be too much for him in a confined space. Be good to get them well acquainted through walks to begin with. The older GSD staying by the crate of the puppy is quite common. If the puppy is new, the older GSD is still trying to get to know that puppy. My suggestion would be to build positive associations outside of the house in neutral grounds and let them get acquainted that way first. That way they figure it out too. Long walks with separate handlers. And as you do that, apply the other positive associations and suggestions mentioned on this thread by @Catherine @Reddog
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My suggestion would be to build positive associations outside of the house in neutral grounds and let them get acquainted that way first. – Vincent H.
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Awesome, thank you! I wasn’t able to open the thread on dog aggression. Do you mind reposting?
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Hi Lisa – you are on the thread about dog-dog aggression right here. 🙂 You can use the search feature on the web version of Digging Dogs to find more. We have a lot of great conversations and this topic does come up (or similar ones!) pretty frequently.
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Lol that’s embarrassing. I think my phone kept freezing and what I thought was a reply to a different comment actually made it into the page when my phone unfroze. Hahahhaaa. Oh boy. ????
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Not to worry???? – my motto is: “Technology is here to make our lives simpler.” Now, if enough of us repeat that enough times, maybe it will become true! ????
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