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Dog Fight During Session
Hello!
I have been sitting on this topic for a few weeks because it happened to me, and I thought it would be a good topic of discussion, but I needed to calm down before bringing it up.
I have (had -I am declining to see them again and I’ll explain why) a client with two large dogs, one is just over a year old, the other is 13 y/o. The family has 2 children, 8 and 11 years old. For weeks, during sessions with the young dog, the kids would ignore the rules set out by the parents and me and would run into the room screaming, they would release the older dog into the room, they would throw things from the steps to distract the young dog. I made the rules of safety very clear, and sent many resources like familypaws.com to the owners, only to be ignored and frequently derailed. Well, the week before Thanksgiving, I was brought in to help refresh management techniques for the young dog, as company would be arriving for the holiday. As I was working with him, the kids started in on the usual nonsense. The parents told them to stay outside with the older dog. A few minutes later, as I was rewarding the young dog with treats, I heard loud giggling (the kids) from behind me, and jingling (the older dog’s collar). Before I could register what was happening (the kids not only came inside, but brought the dog into the training room), the dogs were fighting.
I will not say yet how I handled the fight- I’ll wait to hear what you’d have done for discussion purposes. Thankfully there were no injuries but the mental state of the young dog was wrecked. I laid out many safety protocols, more advice about kid interactions, and will no longer see this client because their inability to control their kids put us all in a dangerous situation. I also found out that although I’d inquired MANY times in the past about any previous scuffles with the dogs and had been assured they had never fought before, that was a lie. It came out after this particular incident that the dogs fought fairly frequently. I was furious, though I kept my composure. I am heartbroken for the dogs (I really bonded with the young one) but I know when to leave a situation.
Who here has experienced anything similar? How did you handle the physical altercation? The aftermath? Looking forward to hearing from you all.
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17 Replies
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Oh, Lisa, how horrible and frustrating. I am so sorry this happened to you. It’s unfathomable that the owners did not inform you of the risk. I applaud you “firing” them – that’s the only safe recourse. Do you have a liability waiver in your paperwork? Did they sign anything with their dog’s behavior noted? Make good notes, now, while it’s fresh in your memory. Follow up with them in writing so you have a paper trail. Document the behavior you saw, what you did and what you recommend, including following up with an expert in aggression. Documenting everything does not remove you from liability, but should this situation escalate or dog-forbid, a kid end up getting harmed, they could decide to pursue you legally as you were hired to “fix” the dog. You are a part of this dog’s history now… and you must protect yourself and your business.
Document. Everything.
I’ve never had a fight break out during a lesson. If you were able to separate the dogs without injury to yourself or others, you are my super-human hero!!
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Hi Catherine! I definitely reiterated all of my concerns and recommendations in an email the very same day. I clearly wrote out what had happened and how I had been led to believe the dogs had never fought before. It was the first time I was put in a situation like that and there was so much running through my mind!
Regarding the fight… We were all very lucky. I was on the floor and unable to get up in time to move away or even wheel barrow walk a dog away. I ended up doing everything you’re not supposed to do: I was right in the middle of the confrontation and ended up using my hands (I know) to continuously and forcefully push the dogs away from each other (thank you adrenaline) until the male owner grabbed one of them and I held the other in place. It was a miracle that no one got hurt. I think a combination of my body position and some obvious inhibition and ritualization behaviors on the dogs’ part saved the day. They were big strong dogs, I know they would have been able to get things done if they really wanted to. It was awful and so sad. I thoroughly checked both dogs for injuries and they were ok, but emotionally VERY shaken up.
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I totally understand how easy it is to forget everything when the adrenaline hits…. it takes a lot of practice for the right motor skills to kick in, and to continue to access logic when you are in a fearful state – it’s darn hard, even with training and when you expect things might “go south”. You are right to be upset at these folks for behaving irresponsibly.
One thing to note: if dogs want to hurt each other, there’s no way they wouldn’t have. So much “fighting” is really just loud and scary arguing… and when bites are inhibited that’s such a relief.
But just know… this time, you didn’t get hurt because these dogs weren’t intent on harming – they were fighting with inhibited bites. If you get in the middle of dogs who are intent on harming each other it is very likely you’ll be bitten and perhaps quite badly. Please be careful!
For next time, think about whether to get involved in breaking up the fight. Just because we are dog pros, it’s not our job to break up the dog fight, unless it was our actions that caused it. You have not made them that promise; you didn’t even know the dogs fought. In my mind, you could have backed away from the whole scene and been entirely correct. I know most of us wouldn’t/won’t because we have too much empathy for the dogs, but consider the risks. I’m interested in what others think about this? (I’m no lawyer, but I don’t see negligence or responsibility when you didn’t know the dogs were aggressive, and you’d instructed them to keep the other dog outside!)
We can create & practice our protocols ahead of time in the event we choose to get involved. Here’s some ideas toward that end:
1. Human safety first – get between kids and dogs – get the kids out of the space or at least block them from moving forward. If they are small, pick them up and get them out, behind a closed door or up on the staircase.
2. Give the dogs 30 seconds to resolve it on their own. Many times, they do. Unless you see blood, or unless one dog is clearly the victim and outpowered, often these issues are worked out. 30 seconds gives them time to do it on their own, and allows you some time to get into your logical brain and grab resources. 30 seconds seems an eternity, but most squabbles are shorter than that.
3. Physical barriers – use whatever is nearby – a bin or trash can, a crate, a chair, a blanket – anything you can pick up and place onto the dogs and press between them. (With a blanket you can still be bitten, so it’s my least favorite.)
5. If the dogs have grabbed hold and are shaking, push the dogs together. It’s counter-intuitive, but pulling them apart when one has a grip causes more injury. Pushing them toward each other can help them release first. Grab the biting dog on either side of his neck and push into the victim dog. If the gripping dog won’t release, you’ll need to cut off their airway or use a break stick or both. Once you get a release you have a fraction of a second to put a barrier between him and the victim dog or he will regrip. It’s not a lot of time, so having someone able to move the other dog away at the moment of release is ideal.
I know this is all easy for me to type, from the comfort of my recliner. Nothing like arm-chair quarterbacking after the fact! But, I do so from the experience of more than one fight in shelter playgroups. I fully understand how hard it is to stay calm, keep people safe, grab barriers and separate dogs intent on harming each other. I have done it wrong, and caused more injury to a dog when pulling another dog away while it was gripping. I will never forget that lesson! ????
Again, kudos on staying safe and for documenting everything. That was your smartest move, to be sure. I fully support your decision not to work with them after this… they needlessly put you, themselves and their dogs at risk. I hope they are more forthcoming with their next trainer.
Be kind to yourself as you grieve and heal. This is a lot to process, the whole experience. Thanks for sharing it with us so vulnerably. I do hope others will share their experience and supportive ideas.
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I 100% agree that if the dogs really had wanted to do damage, they would have. They were showing serious inhibition. I’m not a big person and no one is as fast as a dog so there is no way my shoves and blocking were keeping the world safe lol. That said, it was heckin’ scary because I was in such a weird body posture on the floor, I literally could not get up.
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How terrifying! I didn’t realize you were on the floor for all of it! I’m so glad you were safe. ????
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Firstly, I’m so sorry to hear that this happened. I am horrified at these people. It also makes me think of certain families I have been around that just have NO boundaries or control with their children in regards to dogs and it bother me so much ???? I have had to break up a handful of dog fights (not in a professional context just in life) and I have started carrying with me a citronella spray as well as a pepper spray as a back up if the citronella doesn’t work (which it so far always has.) I am actually curious what people’s thoughts are on the use of these sprays ? For me I got injured several times breaking up fights and this feels like a safer way to split things up and allow people to get ahold of their dogs without causing serious damage (though certainly discomfort in the moment).
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@AnnaBee , I’m 100% on board with your idea to use either of those sprays in an emergency situation, especially when it may decrease risk of injuries for both the dogs and the humans who are trying to handle them.
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@AnnaBee @virginiad I also support those safety products. I carry spray in my bag as well as a break stick in case of serious emergencies. Thankfully I have never had to use them (the day in question is moot lol)
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@LisaOMy Sitting on the floor in the middle of a dogfight is no time to spray citronella! ????
@AnnaBee I’m also a fan of such products. When I was leading shelter dog playgroups, we had marine (boat) air horns – a quick blast of that noise was good for some situations as a (NOT POSITIVE) interrupter. And it was over quickly, as opposed to the scents which linger. On the other hand… it also didn’t work sometimes. ????
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As a shelter volunteer, I have also been taught to use the air horns, but honestly, it often does not work and it also traumatizes my own dog. I always carry pepper spray with me as a last resort when out walking. My dog is very sweet and controlled, but I live in the country and we often encounter aggressive, stray off leash dogs on our walks. I would rather spray a dog as a last resort than risk a dog fight.
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I understand completely, @countrygirl . We sure don’t want to traumatize our own dogs and I get why you’d want to carry pepper spray.
Have you ever had a need to use it? I wonder how effective it is if the weather is windy, and if you or your own dog could get blow-back…? A neighbor of mine carries bear spray and she once demonstrated it for me. I was at least 15′ away from her and she sprayed it in the opposite direction. Yet, despite it not being particularly breezy, some of the spray migrated over to me and it sure was unpleasant!
When I go hiking I carry extra food — tossing a fistful at an approaching dog (who isn’t presenting as obviously aggressive) may stop them in their tracks while I and my dogs have time to head away.
The startling aspect of a pop-out umbrella may help deter an approaching dog, too, though we’d need to desensitize our own dogs to the movement so they don’t get scared as well.
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Fortunately, I’ve only had to use the pepper spray once but it was very effective. I buy the “gel” rather than the “spray” formula. It provides a stream that is less likely to blow back. The idea being to spray to stop the attack and distract the aggressive dog, giving you time to move away as quickly as possible.
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Thank you, @countrygirl — I didn’t know there was a gel version. So good to know this!!
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Oh, @LisaOMy ! I’m so sorry for you having to go through this after all the safety you laid out.
I would not use pepper spray, but I HAVE used SprayShield (PetSafe citronella mace-like spray that does no harm to dogs). It’s on Chewy. I carry it during walks and pet sits and training. I have actually used it once! (Sibling dogs!)
Thank you for sharing out experience, as horrifying as it was. I know it helps us all here. As someone who has had to break up a couple dog fights, I appreciate your sharing so much!
HUGE HUGS TO YOU!!!
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I am so sorry you had this experience! Fighting is so scary and believe me as much as I thought I was always prepared in a daycare setting, I always did everything wrong- getting to close, putting my hands in. I think it is so human for us to want to stop it. I carry an air horn when I walk, I hope that would help. In daycare we really had no tools except a spry bottle or bang a loud pot, which i dont think would work. I am so glad you are okay, it takes awhile to feel calm after that situation.
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@LisaOMy I just want to thank you for sharing. I learned a lot from your post and others responses. I’m sorry that you had to go through this horrible event.
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Thanks, Abbie! This is a great community with so many people willing to share their knowledge ❤️
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