-
FETCH – Good Times or Risky Business?
Retrieve games have long-been a favorite of many trainers and pet owners, for the ease of exercise and the cooperation of a fun game. I even include retrieve games as a reward for other training tasks, like working on extended heeling patterns and quick SITs.
Lately I’ve heard other dog pros discussing concerns relating to FETCH/ retrieve games. Concerns include:
- Not warming up and causing physical injury to the dog in various ways.
- Overuse, causing emotional dependency (dopamine addiction) as in, that’s all the dog wants to do.
I do try to warm Bliss up with some easy movements and light physical activity before a game of FETCH because she, like many dogs, goes at the ball at Mach speed, with no thought to her physical limitations. (What gravity?) I’m always on the lookout for obstacles, too, because geezoman, she’ll run schmack into anything, not to miss the catch.
Proponents of FETCH and related games claim that having a dog respond to some other cued behavior before getting to chase the ball can mitigate the emotional dependency… like in this video, where I have Bliss do her silly “Pop” behavior before getting to run.
Take a look at the video as you please, and then let’s talk about all the things relating to this fun game.
How do you prep your dogs? Do you have any rules to the game? Any concerns?
0:27
-
29 Replies
-
This is a great subject. I always heard of not playing constant fetch because of injury or OCD tendencies. I never thought of warming a dog up before fetch. What a great idea. I would like to know how you warm them up? Maybe I can pass along to people. Annnddd that POP is so cute. How did you train that? Did you capture it? Bliss is just beautiful!!
-
I would ask, what about the dogs who genetically pre-disposed to fetch and retrieve? I would think these dogs are “built” for the behaviors and motions. What is your thought?
-
@jenz I totally agree with what you said. I was just reading a book with that topic- I have to go back in my books and re read some things!
-
-
-
Awww, she looks adorable showing off her tug ball! She has a “proud” face on.
Having a personal training background, I can understand the importance of a warm- and the benefits. I also think that our genetic physical structure/muscle imbalances can play a row in injuries or not. Also, have we conditioned our bodies (or dogs) for a specific activity. Then we need to cross-train the body to prepare it.
I have known people tear rotator cuffs simply washing their hair or reaching for the mug in a high cabinet or, tear their ACL by swimming (oddly).
My sister’s pup just had her second ACL surgery, one seemingly caused by hopping off the bed at 1 years and now a 8, it seemed to “just happen” during walking in the house.
In my opinion, we should do what “experts” may advise as a warm-up and “proper” way based on latest research but, I also think we can not expect unforeseen incidents beyond our control not to happen. There is a risk either way. I think we should have fun but be aware of the possible risks of all we do.
The “pop” in your video serves more as of an impulse mental awareness instead of a physical warm-up (just my opinion). so I would ask; is it an activity specific warm-up to help minimize injuries? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, you both are having fun, bonding, and enriching each other lives!
Have the fun!
-
Great topic, @catherine . It’s something I discuss regularly with clients.
@jenz , if you think about it, dogs who are bred to retrieve are not constantly running back and forth with dead birds that have been shot out of the sky. For sure, we selectively bred them to retrieve but I believe our current form of fetching is pretty different than when working out in the field.
Here’s a quote from Dr. Chris Zink, DVM an orthopedic vet:
“As your dog retrieves the first…second…third…maybe fifth or sixth ball, his muscles start to tire and soon they reach overload, where they no longer can fully control and support your dog’s movements. Now, when your dog does those amazing athletic maneuvers to snag the ball, soft tissues like the cranial cruciate ligament, iliopsoas muscle and tendon, and the muscles and ligaments that support the vertebrae are overstretching. Minor tears are occurring. Now the ball is thrown 10, 12 times or more and ultimately your dog lies down, exhausted.
That period between when your dog’s muscles are in overload, and when your dog lies down exhausted, is the injury zone (Figure 1). But remember, with all that adrenaline, your dog doesn’t feel the injuries happening, so you have no idea that the tissues are being used beyond their capacity.
When this game is repeated day after day, month after month, the small tissue tears become large ones, and suddenly it becomes evident that your dog is in pain and has an injury. Of course, it hasn’t been sudden at all-what seemed sudden is just the final result of repeated stress and strain until the tissues gave way.”
Dr. Zink is clearly an over-achiever! She’s a board-certified specialist in Veterinary Sports
Medicine and Rehabilitation and Veterinary Pathology and has additional training in Canine Rehabilitation,
Veterinary Spinal Manipulation Therapy or Chiropractic and
Canine Acupuncture.One way to play longer bouts of fetch is to make more of the throws land nearby in tall grass or scruffy areas so the dog has to slow down and use her nose to find the toy.
-
Valid points!
-
@virginiad what a great quote and breakdown of what happens! I really like your idea of them finding the ball to slow things down! I will be sharing this!
-
-
-
Yes! That Dr. Zink quote is what I read awhile back and has been in my mind for awhile. Because of what she said, I keep our fetch games way shorter than Bliss would like. I stop after about 6-7 throws at distance.
For warm up, I generally do a little walking – either an actual walk/hike or some brisk heelwork. Then, my initial tosses are gentle/easy/close/low. I likely should do more… and that’s why I’m thinking about it!
The “pop” behavior was a voluntary behavior that I captured a few times and is being shaped. I put the cue on way too early and have some slop in there I want to go back and take out. (I want to remove the steps forward and just have the straight up bunny hop.) I don’t ask for it often, so it’s taking awhile. That’s one behavior I only ask for when she’s sufficiently warmed up!
Being a big girl, Bliss is probably more at risk for injury than smaller, more compact Joy ever was, so I’m thinking about all these things.
@virginiad Your comment about adding in more “hunt” to the game had us playing a whole new game last night… much more “seek/find” and a lot less “chase”. Thanks!
I hope others will chime in about your FETCH game routines!
-
Hmmm, hmm and HMMM!
I dunno. I loved playing fetch with all my dogs. None of them ever got injured from it. My beagle was especially into it. (Yeah, she could be OCD.) But it was fun and a great way to exercise a dog that didn’t always like to be with other dogs. Sometimes, I simply asked her to Sit before throwing the ball again. I’ve said before that she was my dog from my young adult years and I did so many other things wrong with bringing her up. Fetch was one thing I felt good about with her.
In this day of “this great drug gives you all these horrible and life threatening side effects”, I really can appreciate that we need to TAKE CARE in our dog’s daily activities and make sure we don’t give them too much of a good thing, causing injury.
However, I wish more of my clients really took the time to teach and play fetch with their dogs! They give up too soon. They think, ah, he doesn’t like fetch, when their dog doesn’t return the ball to them. Sure, some have a built in retrieve , but all can learn! It does more wonders for the bond with our dogs (especially those with social and reactivity issues) than a possible injury could. People don’t seem to have the stamina to play as long as the dog would like.
I think we need to KNOW OUR OWN DOG. We need to offer water breaks. Sometimes to cross-train with other activities mixed in. Just throwing in a walk around the yard with Touch mixed in can become a relaxing game. And, she can carry the ball if she likes.????
As a pet sitter, playing a game of fetch can be a mindful way to bond with the dog you’re playing with AND to give another dog in that household a break! I remember a set of Labradoodles where I played with one, who would even drop the ball AT me, and if I didn’t get it fast enough, he would use his paws to scramble to toss it to me…All while the other dude crawled up into his master’s outdoor chaise and rested like the King!
In these cases, watch the dog’s breathing. Give mandatory breaks. Don’t throw too far or give them too much chance to flip around. Check them out afterwards and offer other activities as a respite.
Warming up and cooling down is always a great idea. I’m actually more worried about getting an injury myself from all the fetch I play with dogs I watch! ????
-
I’m wondering too, @bernerlabreclectus , whether early spay/neuter — which was the norm in the past — could have been a contributing factor too. I’m thrilled to see how many vets in my area are now recommending a significant delay on spay/neuter.
-
-
@jenz “Have fun, but be aware of the risks.” – yes! There is risk in everything we do, and I agree that we can’t wrap our dogs in bubble wrap and limit their lives too much to keep them “safe” – some breeds, particularly, need lots of physical outlet and mental challenges or they will be completely nuts.
“early spay/neuter” – I bet you’re right on that, @virginiad That has such an impact on growth/development and structural integrity.
@bernerlabreclectus – I had similar good experiences, all my life, with playing fetch and my dogs never having an issue. You are raising some good points with “know your dog” and reading early signs of fatigue.
Thinking back on the dogs I grew up with – fetch was a small part of our whole lives. These dogs were either in training to be guides or were working SAR or police dogs. Overall, their worlds were very large, with lots of variety in their activities. I wonder if that was part of the difference as well?
I still would love to hear what folks are actually doing with retrieve games – Share some ideas for how you structure your game (or not), what toys you use, how often you play… and why! This is a safe space and we can all learn from one another. 🙂
-
To achieve a playful state of mind, adrenaline and dopamine is needed
* Adrenaline at very high levels blocks playfulness and turns into other behaviors
* play aggression where dogs tip from playful wrestling into fighting
* predatory drive where dogs turn from playful chase into predatory drive
High levels of cortisol (stress) block playfulness and make it harder to engage
This is some info I thought I would pass along about play from a neuroscience course I am taking
-
@bmacwatt – Imma need you to unpack this a bit more for us. ????
This deserves it’s own post, all about balancing play and arousal… there’s so much here and you left us such a great lil’ teaser! Whenever you get a second, can you tell us more? ????
-
-
I will write something up with more detail
-
Fantastico! Thanks! ????
-
-
This is a great topic, and I really appreciate the information provided.
I play fetch with my dogs in the house and outside, with a variety of toys. I agree, they will go to the extreme to catch/fetch the toy, so I try to manage where the toy goes, how fast it gets there and consider what obstacles the dogs might encounter (trees, prickers, a table, couch, person, etc.). We practice “wait” while I throw the toy, then give a release cue, like “break!” Or I say… “Ready… set… Go!!”
What’s also great about these games is that no food is involved!
-
-
What gorgeous dogs, @Halberry124 !
I love that you play with them where there are carpet runners to reduce slippage.
-
Thank you!!!!♥️
-
-
Everything about this video is so good! It’s so lovely to see two very enthusiastic dogs not be quarrelsome about the toy, and to take turns. They are able to safely enjoy the game on that carpet. Well done, @Halberry124
-
Thank you!! I have so many runners for my oldest Aussie, Oreo. It definitely makes a huge difference for all the dogs when it’s time to play, but also in the long run, I highly recommend carpeting for all dogs.
The golden, Willow (featured on Flip the Breed) actually terrorizes Tank. However, I found that keeping them busy with a game prevents any tension caused by Willow’s boredom.
-
Fascinating that Willow’s pestering doesn’t carry over to this game. Good girl, Willow!
So fun to have all our cross-pollination going on – DD, FTB, CATCH – all the acronyms. haha
-
**SQUEAKER ALERT!!!***
Willow is a hot ticket for sure!!! I love her so much!!
She loves to fetch and absolutely loves being a dog!
-
-
-
-
-
Thank you for sharing, @Halberry124 ! That is one of the ways I used to play with my Beagle, in carpeted hallway. I love that your dogs take turns retrieving, but still are in the action! So fun! Also, what a great way to use the Wait cue with release. Beautiful family you have!
-
Thanks for pointing out the wait cue and release… I had to watch with the sound off as soon as I heard the squeaky toy because I live with Bliss. lol
-
Ahhh I forgot to put the warning on that video hahah!! As it was playing at my house last night I was getting a lot of head tilts!!!!????????????
-
The struggle is real! ????
-
-
-
Thank you!!!!
-
-
Log in to reply.