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Good dog! Bad genes?
Hello fellow DD members!
I wanted to share a personal story that I hope can help others through education and experiences. It is a very real and often difficult situation to be involved in. It is also very emotional and sensitive. I will take the opportunity here to advise that this post may be too sensitive for some so please, take any cautions in proceeding reading to care for yourself and emotions. I encourage anyone to read if you can, in case you can relate with your own experience or, if perhaps you want to learn to understand situations we may encounter as trainers, behavior consultants, walkers, groomers, shelter volunteers/staff and, as pet parents.
This situation is about my sister’s dog whom I had the opportunity to help give him the best start in life, now in a new home using the knowledge I have from CATCH, University of Washington (Applied Animal Behavior) and a few years of working with shelter dogs as a volunteer trainer and of course my own rescues. By no means do I claim to know and understand everything about dogs. I will always be the first to ask for help when/if needed.
Barkley was an approximate 9 week old pup when fostered here in the U.S.
Originally a street dog in Puerto Rico, he was found and picked up by an animal advocate while eating a dead cow carcass with his siblings.
He had the best start possible once in a great new home (after my sister foster failed): socialization, enrichment, play, puppy socials and professional training. He was always getting complimented on how “calm” and “well-behaved” he is. He was very smart at that age and seemed to learn fast. He was sweet and affectionate, loved to cuddle, a “velcro” puppy yet content enough to grab a chew, go in his crate and entertain himself. He had very few accidents in the house! He was a dream puppy to have in the family and train.At 11 weeks he started resource guarding (RG) the water bowl against the 2 other resident dogs in the house. We began a protocol for RG. Management and CC began. Things improved some but, management was favored . He had less than ideal play skills during play with the resident dogs but has shown ideal behaviors with my dog Titan. His DNA by Embark revealed almost 95% American Pit Bull Terrier and 5% unknown. At 6 months, the evening he returned from neutering he displayed some scary aggression, even growling at the simple act of picking up the leash to more severe such as RG random objects 12′ away and not in his possession. Pain from neuter and negative experience? Maybe. This “aggression” seemed to resolve itself after 8 LONG days of trying to wrap our head around it, manage and handle it to help him.
Soon after he starting displaying more and more fear, especially in contexts and towards things that never caused reactions. He now had some body handling issues. He would no longer get in the car, go for walks, go in the front yard, no longer wanted to be social with people and was “rougher” when interacting with the 2 other dogs etc. It was difficult to keep his focus on us or listen to cues. His training seemed to fall apart at times. Looking at his age, my thoughts aligned with secondary fear period, adolescence and “normal” set-backs. What were you thinking?
As time, training and behavior modification went on for the next 6 months, some of the above contexts produced fear-based behaviors, including growling and air-snapping, including at family members, as if he did not recognize his own human family members.
Safety and more management plans were put in place. As his behaviors escalated, occurred more frequently and seemingly random, it was time to change the path we were on. I reached a point where I had to realize that these incidents were no longer training set- backs but real concerns. I began to think that his fear, stress, anxiety and frustration type behaviors were likely genetic or, biologic. During this time I admit that I struggled with the questions “How could I fail him and my sister?, What did I do wrong? Am I really a trainer?” (imposter syndrome)Being science-based with a fairly good understanding of behavior but setting my boundaries, I knew I needed help, if I was going to help him. I reached out to a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist- he was my professor in college. After consulting with him for an hour, he aligned with my thoughts that this was very likely biological behavior given his known background info. He also had a valid thought that he may lack inhibition and impulse control. We chatted with my sister about potential treatments and potential outcomes. This experience has been the first for us after having over a dozen dogs combined.
At this time, we have decided to keep trying, as he has not reached his final brain development stage. We are treating him pharmaceutically (keeping age and behaviors in mind) while continuing management and behavior modification. We have decided because we have the resources and commitment to help him, we owe him that chance. We understand the outcome is very much up in the air. His emotional and mental well-being will be our priority with all decisions.
This post is in hope to continue to raise awareness that “it is not how they are raised” or their environmental only. It is understanding what is written in their DNA, or the influence pre-natal/neonatal stress hormones can have.
Medical concerns can also play a role in behavior. Its about understanding and knowing what is best for the dog and humans while showing compassionate to both. It is about asking for help and being there to help colleagues with complex cases (and even simple ones). It’s about taking breaks and practicing self-care. It is about knowing when you have done everything you could, it is likely something you had no control over in the first place. Be careful not to blame yourself.Barkley and myself thank you for this opportunity to share his (and my) real-life experiences.
I am happy to answer any questions you may have.
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53 Replies
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This powerful post speaks with such compassion and clarity about a situation that a frighteningly growing number of families are facing. There are many levels to this Gordian knot relating to these sorts of puppies* being rescued/transported to be adopted by families who are completely unprepared for what they are taking on. These families are trying to “do the right thing” by rescuing a pup from dire circumstances
The emotional bond we share with dogs both prompts and supports us to try and find a way to help them but can also cloud our perception of what we, and they, are capable of. I am grateful you are there for your sister through this.
The dog that brought me into the training world (20 some-odd years ago) was an under-socialized, likely genetically fearful, ranch Cattle Dog, with generalized anxiety. When I met him at the rescue that had pulled him from a rural shelter, they just handed me (a complete stranger to this dog) his leash and told me to take him for a walk. I was shocked by the way he stared at me. I was completely naive and saw love; while in fact, it was terror. I did my best for him and learned so much, but he lived afraid of much of his world.
We as dog professionals are seeing much of the fallout from well-meaning efforts to place these dogs in homes. I completely agree with you that our communities need to be educated, that people need to understand, it is not all how dogs have been raised, even that plus their environment, and that love can’t fix everything.
Thank you for sharing Barkley’s story. My dog was Rio.
What we are speaking about here resonates with me both personally (because of my Rio) and professionally (years working in animal sheltering). I find myself wondering again and again what the best way to address the situation might be. The first step is to support our clients who are facing similar storylines in the kindest and most knowledgeable way we can.
*of unknown genetic background, often malnourished, whose socialization does not mesh with the typical American family home
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@jenwalker
This is a recent picture of Barkley.
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@jenz Wow! What a story, thank you for sharing! I see your heart in this post, from helping with the training, to asking what you did? (Which I think we all do this) to still trying to help this guy out:) I was always fascinated reading the course on nature vs nurture in my CATCH courses. I am amazed how much behavior can be genetic. For example when I went to visit my Berners breeder, the mom had some fear issues. Knowing the breed can be aloof anyways, plus I was not educated yet. I did not think anything of it. Than raising my guy, we had some fear issues along the way, even with trying my best with my training techniques now. We have come such a long way, but I know it’s in his DNA. I was also thinking with your case with Barkley, I wonder how much stress the mom was under being pregnant with the puppies and as she started to raise them. I studied that can affect a puppies emotional state, genetics. Just a thought. You are doing such an amazing job and Barkley is lucky to have you. Keep us posted! I also will keep this in mind when I have a tough case, to think back on this post!
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@jenwalker
Thank you for sharing your story. I am sorry to hear about Rio but, glad you had each other for each of your journeys. I see a beautiful dog when I look at this picture of Rio. It is difficult to see the fear.
” The first step is to support our clients who are facing similar storylines in the kindest and most knowledgeable way we can.” I agree. I think most people do not understand some of these puppies and dogs are already way behind from where they should be starting, similar to the puppy mill dogs. I feel like I should have known better with him but…..My sister fell for him and of course, so did I. Sometimes I think that he “fell” into our hands to be helped (if he can be long term)-that in another’s hands, he would have less of an opportunity.
Thanks again for sharing your experience.
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With your knowledge and your sister’s care, he is in a far better place than almost any other home he might have fallen into. The quality of life he is living, and the chance to live as full a life as he can have, is already a great gift!
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Thanks for sharing your story with your pup. Nature vs nurture is fascinating for sure!
I think you are on the correct path in wondering what role stress hormones from mom played- I think a lot, no doubt. There are studies with mice (best I recall) that support this. If (his) mom is stressed from living on the streets, it makes sense that she may not be the best at parenting (as she is affected by stress) and that can certainly affect the behavior of her pups. It makes us think, that’s for sure!
I hope you and your pup continue to make progress. No matter how small, count it as a success!
Thanks for taking the time to read our story.
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Thank you guys for sharing these heartfelt stories. There is a lot to learn from each other’s experiences and it’s wonderful to see the support we give one another as well. I also love seeing the photos of your beautiful dogs. ????
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@jenz You have brought a difficult case to the forefront of our community with professionalism and grace. I appreciate, so much, the “warning” that you gave at the beginning. I have had to wait a bit for my own self-care, before I could jump in and read the post. (It’s okay to do that!) Our community is a SAFE place – and I want to commend ALL our members for being generous and patient while we learn how to have these difficult conversations.
Krista and Jen W, you both particularly – just WOW as you express your support and understanding to JenZ. @pawsup @jenwalker
I have counseled many people through this process while working with and without the support of a board certified veterinary behaviorist. It is particularly difficult when you, alone, are the “expert” who supposedly has the answers. It’s even more difficult when it’s a dog close to you. Blaming yourself is normal, natural and as you have assessed, ridiculous.
Of course you are giving Barkley every possible advantage and opportunity. He may or he may not be able to access the part of his brain to change his behavior. There may be nothing more you can do to help him, or you may land on the perfect blend of caution and management. Time will tell. I’m encouraged that you are keeping in mind not only what is good for him, but the safety of all concerned.
You are 100% that it is NOT “all in how they are raised”. There are many, many dogs who grew up in deplorable conditions who have the genetic disposition of saints – social, biddable, wiggly and friendly with all. Genetics, in utereo stress, neonatal experience are all part of the package that we cannot modify later in life. All we can do is work with the dog in front of us.
Years ago, I had a difficult and very emotional case involving a puncturing bite to a child’s face. I ended up recommending euthanasia as an option and was struggling with the emotions afterward when someone said to me, “What would you do, to prevent another bite to a child?” “Anything,” I answered.” “Well, you are doing that, now.” It changed how I look at those really difficult cases – because when we are working with aggression, we’re not just dealing with what HAS happened, we are dealing with the potential for the behavior to happen again.
So, the force of the bite has been a determining factor as I’ve learned to counsel more clients through these decisions. The dog is very likely to bite again at the force he chose, the last time, at least. Likely, if the behavior was based in defensiveness or fear, as the dog’s confidence grows in using aggression as a functional answer to a threat, the intensity/force of the bite will grow. The bites will connect faster, go deeper and likely increase in frequency (multiple bites rather than one).
Nobody wants to hear this, let alone consider it from a dog they’ve loved and into whom they have invested a great deal of heart, time, money and effort. The emotional toll of this type of thinking is real, so I always have clients take time away from the dog to step back and think it through carefully, while away from the dog.
I have had some clients decide that they would continue to manage the dog – that the bite force was “okay” in that it would be a red mark or less – and that they were willing to accept that risk. Those clients live/d happily ever after while carefully managing their dogs’ behavior. In those cases, it’s good to remember that “management ALWAYS fails” and to decide whether the worst-case-scenario risk is acceptable. If there are children in the home, it may well not be worth the risk.
Another thing to consider is: how happy is a dog who is so defensive and angry all the time? Some other colleagues and I – researchers, expert trainers, behaviorists at a very top level – have been discussing a mental-health quality of life scale (there isn’t one) so that we can measure how a dog with aggression is impacted, emotionally, by their own mental illness. It’s super challenging, and so far, all we have is the very beginning of questions that we’d talk through with a client about how they perceive the frequency of the dog’s positive emotional state and overall well being. (No, I don’t have actual questions to share with you at this time – sorry!)
All this to reiterate what others have already said – Barkley is so, so lucky to have landed with you and your sister. You are doing the very best that you can for him and giving him absolutely every possible chance. I hope he is able to overcome these issues to the point where everyone can be safe.
Thank you again for bringing this challenging and personal case to our community with the transparency and generosity that you have. Please do keep us informed as you continue to work with Barkley.
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Have you thought about re homing as this dog may be too stressed with having 2 other dogs in the family? As much as you love this dog, maybe this needed to be in a single dog family rather than with multiple dogs ? There is so much to this as I really don’t have all the facts straight. I am not sure how many family members there are and don’t know the psycho dynamics of the family members and how they felt about the dog after it developed all these behavior issues. Dogs pick up on our body language more than we realize. Wish you the best and hope all works out.
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@catherine Thank you for your kind words and support. It sounds like you know exactly the spot I am in (first time) and others have been in.
Safety is huge for all involved, including the dog. Thankfully, Barkley has not bitten (although I think an air snap is considered a bite on the Dunbar scale if I recall). His growling has worked to prevent escalation. With this in mind, I wonder how much, if any, of his growling has become a CER or learned response.
The emotional side is hard for humans. Most see the side of their dog that is as you say ” social, biddable, wiggly and friendly”. When they snuggle their face in your arms and chest, it makes it very hard to know/see there is the potential for an “aggressive” side.
I am glad you are working on a mental health scale- that scale is long over due and surely will make a significant positive impact on dogs’ welfare! Thanks for your part in helping our companions.
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Jen, I’m so glad to know that Barkley hasn’t crossed the line to escalating his behavior to include biting. Again, he is so very lucky to have you in his world. I LOVE growling dogs – they are simply expressing their emotional state. So many people miss all the underlying stress signals, but they never miss growling! This is a great reminder to everyone that we never punish growling. Someone said, “Punishing a dog for growling is like taking the batteries out of your smoke detector.” Warnings of imminent danger are so very important! Thank you again for bringing us Barkley’s story. Keep us posted!
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@denny Thanks for your questions and concerns.
Since he has already shown these behaviors that have escalated, I would not rehome due to them. There just is not enough resources for dogs with behavior concerns and people to follow through. In my area, most fosters, shelters, non-profits, rescues etc. claiming to “save lives” want nothing to do dogs who are less than “perfect”.
I know what you mean and agree. I do not think it applies here, as all go “about business as usual” with some safety related changes i.e no more 2 handed pets, no more faces near his face, no couches, etc.
Barkley is separated from the other dogs at this time unless strictly supervised. He has been learning that being calm in their presence pays off. Actually, when he walks with my dog Titan, he gains confidence and his body language changes- he becomes an instant “better” dog. Titan is very much part of the B-Mod.
It is a very complex case, as triggers and antecedents causing the behaviors are constantly changing. It makes it hard to set him up to succeed since what has worked 1 or 5 times may no longer work in addition to things he has been comfortable with for the last year, are now causing him fear.
Thanks again for your thoughts!
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Hi Jennifer,
Thanks for sharing your story. You get huge props for laying it all out and also for recognizing the breadth of the situation and taking it seriously. I think it’s easy to overlook (be willfully ignorant of?) certain behaviors, and hope for the best when a clear head and sound decision-making are needed.
I do hope for the best for all involved, but the real work is what you’re doing with management, asking for help, and trying different approaches toward resolution.
Good luck.
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Thank you for taking the time to read this post and especially understanding. Your kind words and support are appreciated.
I agree with you that often behaviors are over-looked or ignored for many reasons and often for too long.
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Hey everyone!
I wanted to share an update regarding Barkley. My sister and I took him to see a Vet Behaviorist today. We, mostly I, want piece of mind that we try everything we can to help him. He is on his meds and additional meds to help with the car ride. After 6 months of working with him, he now gets in the car, however, I am unable to close the door completely without him trembling, scanning and lip licking. I can close it about 4 inches. Although not a great fit size wise (his puppy crate and now his travel crate), he is ready and willing to get into this crate to be transported safely and calmly. He did really well on the ride to and from. We practice “crate” randomly with it!
Our muzzle training has been stalled for the last 3 weeks due to some reasons, adolescent brain is my best guess. Muzzling him was not looking good for the vet. After an hour of chatting and feeding him chicken to acclimate him to this environment, my attempts failed, however he chose to place his nose in the muzzle for his mom (my sister). As the vet began her physical exam, managing only to listen to his heart, he growled. The exam ended. Her understanding and compassion was exceptional. The real challenge was now to get the muzzle off! He growled at my sister and I once each at our subtle attempts to reach toward him. He would not take any treats.
We have talked abut classical conditioning and how CC could help with emotions and other behaviors. As he went into his crate I was able to remove the muzzle without any signs of stress or escalations. He immediately began eating chicken, too! His crate is one of his safe spots and where he feels “good”. Phew!
Her diagnosis is what we already suspected and knew; adolescence, general anxiety, general fear/phobia, noise sensitivity (although he has no issues with fireworks and thunder-it is more common everyday noises), Pica, territorial aggression, possession aggression (I am hearing more of this term instead of Resource Guarding) and I recall 1-2 other conditions that I am not familiar with nor remember at this time. We are waiting for the official paperwork to be sent. They said 2-3 days. She is changing his meds in an attempt to allow his brain to “open up” and receive information in a more relaxed state, which will hopefully even out his emotional roller coaster.
She said something that really stood out- “Anxiety loves predictability” I told her I was stealing that line, as it makes so much sense hearing it in that simple, clear way.
We are also going to make a small change or two to his routine, to be more predictable for him during our arrivals. Not sure how this will play out yet but gives me something to think bout!
Here are some pictures of his transport and once we returned. He seems to enjoy his “grass time” so we immediately set him free on his long line to roll around and start to decompress. Then he will get his frozen peanut butter Goughnuts “sandwich”.
He did walk into the crate on his own during his chill time after returning! I am thrilled that at least there is seemingly no side effects from this trip. Now, the muzzle may be a different story, but that will be another day. The next 2 days or so are his!
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I love in your post where it says anxiety loves predictability! I’m going to remember that one too!
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There’s so much to learn from what you’re experiencing and sharing @jenz
Thanks for this awesome update with photos!
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Thank you so much for sharing. I would love to know more about the process. I’m really glad you brought this up because I have been struggling in kinda a similar way as you with my dog, but not as intense
So my dog I got him last august and with in the last month everything kinda changed. He constantly looks sad, if you touch him he jumps and shakes. He won’t get in the car on his own anymore either and he used to love car rides. He won’t eat his food, and when I am trying to train him he just seems so disengaged.one night it was 2 o’clock in the morning and he is awake and shaking and he won’t lay down. Lately I have just seen small Similarities related to your story.I’m glad I’m not the only one I have been thinking about ever case I can but I’m not sure how to help him and it got to the point where I was like I feel like I’m not giving him a good home or life.
When I touched him especially his stomach he shakes, runs and jumps back and hides
I took into consideration that maybe I moved to fast and scared him, since in his past house he was abused and fearful or yelling and fast movements… so I slowed down my movements, let him come to me , but he still reacted so then I stopped being affectionate with him because I didn’t want to make him uncomfortable. I thought that it could be medical so I took him to the vet… nothing. It’s weird because with the car situation he is fine with other people cars but mine. I started thinking of the possibility’s of why he didn’t want to go in my car, I got a new car so I figure that was probably the problem.I just thought he wasn’t used to it. He used to just jump right in when I gave him the cue now he wont get in unless I guide him with the leash and the whole time he is sleeping in the car. As before he was sticking his head out the window. so now I’m just thinking he’s laying down that means he settled and feels comfortable but that’s not the case here either. I started thinking of any possibility and one night when I took him on a car ride he saw something that he got scared of. I was correlating his fear with the car but he’s never been afraid of this before. When he stopped eating his food again I thought it was medical or I also read that dogs get bored where they eat their food so I moved his food to a different part of the house, he still didn’t eat. I then tried getting him different food he didn’t want to eat that either even stuff that he used to love chicken beef jerky. All the good stuff NOTHING. When I would train him he wouldn’t come when being called even with his favorite food he wouldn’t respond even with his favorite food. I was getting really discouraged thinking I shouldn’t be a trainer. He just seems so unresponsive, like he doesn’t know his name but again I’ve worked with him over and over doing certain cues and doing certain training. I know he knows it. I started doing research and it said pitbull‘s are stubborn it could just be that but I knew it wasn’t just him being stubborn. I did research and something came up as you’ll see the dogs true personality within six months of owning them. I knew that I was barely over my six month mark so I started thinking maybe this is just him this is his personality and he’s just comfortable like his true colors are coming out. Kept reading it said something about the adolescent development so I took that into consideration that “ teenage years“ the dog will “test you” I was trying everything in considering everything. He got to the point where at 2 o’clock in the morning when he woke up I took him out to go to the bathroom that was not reason. I thought maybe he saw something outside or even inside the house checked the house nothing. I did more research why is my dog not sleeping… It said something about a full moon ( it was a full moon the night he wouldn’t sleep) affecting dogs and their behaviors . The no sleeping went on for a week and then all of a sudden that just stopped he sleeps throughout the night and he sleeps all day now. When he got fearful I thought it was because I dropped a book and that scared him but now it’s been over a month and it’s daily that he reacts. I did more research it said Mercury was in retrograde and that could affect dogs. I’m just trying to take everything into consideration, but I know deep down there is more to it. I want to give him the best life! And I just want to know how to help him.
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@britt Garlic is sooooo lucky to have you perservering to find a solution to his discomfort. What a lucky dog. You’ve brought up a number of potential reasons here and it would be too complex to break everything down in a chat. Have you considered consulting with a veterinary behaviorist to try to narrow the possibilities? There may yet be a medical explanation, or maybe not, but a veterinary behaviorist would be the one professional qualified to help you sort that out. They will take a very complete history and spend time discussing all the possible diagnoses and symptoms and then come up with a plan of action with you. Do you have one in your area? Here’s a search to use.
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Hello everyone,
I wanted to give an update on Barkley.
After months of interactions with Titan and, Titan communicating with Barkley to let him know what is appropriate and not appropriate (and Barkley slowly “listening” and responding), they had a moment of play the other day! Not perfect but a nice start! Usually they are only going on walks with occasional brief sniffs with Titan moving away due to Barkley’s “shenanigans” of inappropriate behaviors such as running into Titan, fast direct approaches, ignoring cut-off/ calming signals etc.
I want to mention that Titan is a confident, well-socialized dog. His body language may appear as my sister calls it, “large and in charge” but, he avoids conflict. It was a nice to see this happen.
Titan went into the garden. This is his favorite hide out but he may have went in this time to end the interaction. We also ended the interaction to avoid Barkley from spilling over into a highly- aroused state where he tends to lack impulse control. We also did not want either dog surprising the other in the dense flowers and having a negative impact.
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Hurrah! Well done, @jenz – congrats on careful management and supporting Titan.
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Hi Everyone!
Barkley had a vet appointment this morning for bloodwork, vaccines, ear cleaning, nail trim etc. It needed to be a one and done.
I was unsuccessful at getting the muzzle on him at this house after a couple of close attempts. He was medicated with the maximum drugs that they would allow us to sedate him.
At the vet, his emotions were high. We could not get him out of the crate or muzzle him in. He was communicating with low levels of growling. Unfortunately, our only option was to sedate him further with an injection through the crate, in hopes this would allow me to muzzle him. The Dr. was successful in acting quickly to get the injection in. Barkley did let out a significant growl with a head turn. Within 7 minutes, he was almost out completely. My sister captured these photos (I had no idea she did until we left the office). She had left the room soon after taking these to reduce his stress and hers (she said). I managed to get the muzzle on with him pretty much sleeping. When the Dr. came in, (and my sister staying out due to her emotions), Barkley was aware enough to communicate with us. He “only” growled when his left ear was cleaned and medicated. He is prone to excessive wax/yeast. He was ok with nail trim, vaccine and blood draw. He is home resting and seemingly recovering ok from the experience, even going back into his travel crate on cue. (one trial)
My heart aches for him, my sister and all the pet owners who have dogs like Barkley.
On a happy note, attached is a video of him and Titan yesterday! They both communicated so well and had a blast for about 20 minutes. You will see both near the fence standing somewhat still and tall. This is a popular digging area that both use. To prevent a conflict I used Barkley’s recall to move him away. He responded! (apparently I can not load pictures and videos in the same post- so I will post the video after)
Barkley even offered 2 play bows to steal a twig Titan had! I wish I had the camera rolling at that moment. It was a huge moment for both. Barkley is a resource guarder and usually the one taking what he wants, yet he “asked nicely”. Titan is also protective of his personal space, so to allow Barkley to approach and allow him in and take the twig was equally amazing!
Thank for taking the time to read this and allow me to share my experiences.
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Jen-
I’m so humbled and impressed with all the really difficult work you are doing here. And the way you are presenting it is so helpful as a learning tool so thank you very much for that. Its so rewarding to see Titan helping Barkley learn how to “dog”. I’d be really curious to know what you think regarding any physical pain or discomfort playing a factor in anyway. I wish we could just ask them (sigh). I’m so grateful that you are sharing Barkley’s journey with us. Thank you.
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@abbie Thank you for your kind words, support and encouragement. It truly means a lot knowing you and hopefully others can benefit from Barkley’s journey. I too am learning as I go!
If you mean any pain and discomfort Barkley could be in, pain can not be ruled out but, nothing has been ruled as a cause either. The VB does not think he is experiencing growing pains or, that the ear issues are severe enough to cause the behaviors he is displaying but…. also not ruling it out. We think due to his background of being a street dog, his mom living on the street etc that he is experiencing biological fear with deep roots. He has Pica, territorial aggression (developed within the last 6 weeks), generalized anxiety and stress. He displays generalized (dog-dog) resource guarding behaviors. The dog-human RG has seemed to resolve thankfully. RG developed at 11 weeks. He has a lot going on.
As part of this visit today, the vet is doing a complete blood work up, including Lyme, CBC etc. and to make sure the behavior meds are not having a negative effect on his organs.
Let me know if you have any other questions! I am happy to answer!
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Here is the video of Barkley and Titan. A little more progress!
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Wow, @jenz – just WOW. Great work; great handling; Barkley is one lucky, lucky dog to have you in his corner. (Your sister is, too!) Thank you for continuing to share your journey with him; this is invaluable. I’m glad you were able to get him the medical care he needed with as little trauma as possible. Kudos on all the hard, slow work with muzzle training that you have accomplished so far. And… extra biscuits for Titan! What a good boy. Well done, all.
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Thank you to all who have shared their experiences & stories with “troubled dogs”. As a Professional Trainer of 21+ years, I have encountered dogs who seem to be far beyond my skill set in basic obedience training. Based on historical information from the pet owners/families, I have surmised that some of these dogs were genetically flawed due to reckless breeding practices, ie. puppy mills, hobby breeders or backyard breeders. When the family tells me that the dog has been this way since it was a young puppy and there was no other evidence of mistreatment, I was thinking along the lines of most of you…what can I do to help this dog & pet parent and is this a result of poor/careless/accidental breeding? I also strongly discourage from breeding these dogs, although I have some owners who insist on ignoring my recommendations in removing these defective genetics from the local population.
I also will recommend that the owner see a Behaviorist to discuss medications and training protocols if the over-the-counter meds don’t work. Good luck to all of you and keep posting ideas for people who have a similar situation and need the help.
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Indeed genetics play a role in behavior; and whether or not a dog was purpose bred for a particular skillset is good to know, as background information. @anne Have you seen Kim Brophey’s book, Meet Your Dog? It’s brilliant. She talks about the role of genetics in the development of breeds and how, in many cases, it’s simply a difference in expectations on the part of the people, vs. what the dog was bred to do. How many dogs initially from working breeds or sport breeds are struggling to succeed in pet homes?
In my circles, most “hobby breeders” are ones who are trying to better the breed they love by watching out for health, conformation and temperament.
It does seem that the numbers of dogs arriving in shelters who are poorly suited to leave them are increasing, while there is an overall shortage of those “easy” dogs from a few decades ago, at least in some regions of the US.
As a community, we want to support the hard work that all dog lovers are doing to help the individual dogs in front of them to succeed. Our energies are best spent supporting one another by collaborating on best practices for breeding, puppy raising, training, rehoming and sheltering success.
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Hi everyone!
It’s been a while since I’ve posted because well, behavior takes a while!
Barkley is on his 3rd regimen of behavior medicine trials and, we think we have one that is helpful! We have seen a significant improvement in a lot of his behaviors, especially with people in the house.
We have completely stalled on the muzzle training- he wants nothing to do with it at this time.
Although it takes patience, we are able to get him to leave the property for a small walk (about 100 feet) without his helper/mentor dog Titan! He still shows caution but, makes the decision to move forward towards me. We have made a lot of progress recently by walking in figure 8’s, gradually increasing the size of the 8!
Originally with guests in the house, we had tried several set-ups that often still led to Barkley instantly going over threshold. He reacted immediately entering the house without even seeing them. I am thinking the scent alone was enough. He would bark excessively, whine, pull, bite the leash and nothing would get him to calm, not even removing him. Now he can actually focus and can use LLW techniques (tight leash and pulling = no forward motion) to see the guests. He does “stage rush” the last 4′ in one of these videos but, I chose to let it go out of not wanting to possible add frustration being so close. I have tons of short videos but will share a few here of our recent successes.
I have usually been the one handling him and in one video you will see his dad working with him for the first time! Even though it is far from perfect, Barkley and Steve did a great job working a novel person in the house for the first time together!
Thank you!
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I LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS POST!!! Wow, @jenz what great news and simply lovely behavior work.
I particularly enjoy your set up, with the walk past/sniff/move on – just perfect to give him the information he needs and very little chance to go over threshold.
So glad you guys kept working to find a med that would help him.
Also – I NEED THAT GATE! What brand is it? It’s perfect.
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@programdev
Thanks so much for your feedback!
We have a long ways to go but, to finally see him get some relief from some of his struggles, gives us relief in many ways, too! He still has a lot of issues, but trying to prioritize and navigate them one at a time. He is just about 16 months now.
The barn door (where I am standing ) is “Safety’s Choice”. The other swivel gates (where Steve walks past with the access holes) is “Mom’s choice” . They are both great in my opinion. Pay attention to door sizes and heights- they come in many. They can get pricey so, check FB Marketplace, too!
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It’s so good to see this kind of exellent work and slow progress, Jen. Thanks so much for keeping it real with us.
Thanks, too for the baby gate recommendations – they are both good looking gates!
So far as the muzzle training – I am thinking back to the vet visit you guys had. Do you think he’s remembering all that and associating it with the muzzle? I wonder if changing the scent and/or appearance of the muzzle would help with a “restart?” Or maybe some “doughnut” games – reshaping “put your nose in” as a target with other things to bring back play?
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@programdev
At the vet, he was sedated to the max (had to do a reversal shot) so, I would like to think he does not associate it but, we don’t get to choose associations, right? ????. I have been giving him a break from it for now. That is a good idea to start from fresh and, a new game! (using figure 8’s really helped walking alone, from just walking in a straight line! Wish I’d thought of it sooner!!). I will give that a try over the weekend and let you know how it goes!
He also no longer jumps over the stool and we can’t think of anything “bad” that happened while he did it. He stops and shows stress/frustration (whines, barks and paces around it) when he reaches it. We have moved it to various locations with the same results. We are giving him a break from this, too. He is not interested in “Sniffarris” or food puzzles at this time. It is like he has become “activity selective” . Perhaps this is the dog he is suppose to be. He still enjoys snuggles at his comfort level and sun bathing! Basically, we have a mixed bag of behaviors and changes taking place. I would rather see him have more confidence, resiliency and emotional stability over him having to choose to jump over a stool or not.
Waiting to what “two year old brain” does to/for him as he is in adulthood. Hopefully, we get more gains!!!
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Hi everyone!
Just wanted to share a huge Barkely update. Barkley had a significant improvement in his muzzle training!
Video 1. Watch him move into the muzzle and, I was able to add in bringing up the second strap! He is also “working” for scratches and any attention! This is a huge step for him in muzzle training since we had stalled a couple of months ago! He has been consistent with this step for 1 week and without any food reward!
Video 2. He is able to cope with guests in the house much better, too.
What do you notice different about the 3rd interaction with the person sitting at the table? Why is this significant?
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Fantastic videos, @jenz . I’m so glad you shared these as it opened up an earlier thread I’d not seen before. What an amazing job you’ve done with Barkley, and how lucky he is to have your help.
I loved the final visit to the guest on the 2nd video, where he auto-checks in with you after a couple seconds of greeting!-
Thanks for checking here!
It has been a long and winding road with many surprising turns and, we are not done yet. Thank you for your kind words.
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So GREAT TO SEE @jenz !!
How did you figure out to drop the food from the muzzle training and use petting/praise instead?
On the greeting/go sniff – I loved that he did a shoe-sniff first. I’ve heard other trainers use the shoe as a target, teaching the dog to go in for a sniff there (and only there) I really like that idea for dogs who can easily bump over threshold with proximity to a stranger. DId you teach the shoe-sniff or was that his idea?
Absolutely beautiful work with this challenging boy!
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@programdev
Hi! Thanks!
The no food thing was this video, first try. When I noticed he was eager to engage and less likely to walk away- I rolled with it and still am!
The sniff was his choice! When he went under the table I felt that may be an issue and called him away. When he went in and under for the third time, I was going to call him out but saw he did it on his own! Happy moment for sure. My only concern is, I don’t want this to be an operant behavior vs an emotional change so, I am closely watching his interactions still- so he is truely comforatble vs “I will do this for a reward”
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Oh yes – @jenz would you care to expand on this concept a moment? This is SO IMPORTANT!
I don’t want this to be an operant behavior vs an emotional change
And what are you watching for, to tell the difference?
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@programdev
Part of this training also includes impulse control and focus on handler. Previously, with his anxiety, he would bark, whine, jump, pace, leash bite, and pull to reach the doorway threshold just to see the person. He reacted without ever seeing them- but he could pick up their scent as they sat quiet. (our set up was, Barkley was outside the rear door as the guest entered the front and sat quietly, then he was brought in).
I am watching his responses overall, from start to finish-That he wants to interact with them and comfortable in doing so (affiliative). If it is an operant behavior, he may just perform the sniff or check-in as a cued behavior, like sitting or down. Performing the behaviors alone does not indicate if he is emotionally able to cope or not fully. We are not quite at the point where people can pet him yet. Movement from the people and other environmental factors can still startle him. I have included another video, same session but 1 or 2 trials after the previous video. This video captures a much improved response from him when his environment changes suddenly.
There is a lot going on with this pup at once! As you know behaviors can overlap so does training.
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Nice training, @jenz – yes – that second where he sits and looks at you – oh, wow, it would have been great to mark and reward that. You caught it ultimately, – that he was checking in like “not ready!” What a great default behavior and one you could really build on.
You are doing great work with Barkley and he’s so very lucky to have you!
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@programdev
In case you missed it, he hesitates and changes his mind after he hears one of the other dogs barks. Previously, if he was near a person when the unexpected dog bark occured, Barkley would show fearful behaviors and bark at the person near by. To see him react this way and focus on me “better” is a significant improvement in his emotional response. So many moving parts to his training!
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Yes I did notice that – and his choice was to sit and check in. Speaks TONS of the great work you’ve been doing!
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@programdev
Sorry- I misintepreted your comment!
Thanks! I think the meds are helping! ????. With that said behavior modification is a huge component of seeing changes in addition to meds!
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I fully support “Better living through chemistry” for all species! ????
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Wow, this is a wonderful video on so many levels. ????
First of all, it’s great to hear of (and see) Barkley’s progress. Secondly, he loves working with you and it’s clear he feels he can trust you, even when (as a very sensitive boy) he can’t trust the situation. Thirdly, look at all of the coping skills you’ve taught him! And fourthly (too much? ????) the way you are reading his body language while running the session is so empathic while showing a lot of skill. Bravo!
It’s not easy to show your training process so humbly and openly. Know that doing so can be very inspirational to others. ????????Thank you for sharing @jenz !-
@david
“too much”- nah- I was looking forward to a “fifthly’ and “sixthly”! I appreciate your feedback and support!
I can only hope that sharing Barkley’s journey helps others in some capacity. I hope it can help dogs, even one dog. It is very hard for me to see myself as a professional still- I still very much see myself on my learning journey (and always will be!). I am not perfect in the sessions but, behavior is not perfect either!
Thank you and the DD community again for the support in this thread and, others’ journey in posts!
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Mission accomplished @jenz and keep up the great work! Sharing your journey with us is so generous. We are all learning together; you know how much we appreciate you!
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It has been a while since I have posted about Barkley!
Thankfully, he responded to medication and still continues to progress S L O O O O W L Y to behavior modification. He still has many “off” days. Fearfulness will likely always be shown in his body language to some degree, he will likely always be a sedate at the vet, he will likely always be a complex case and have a small circle of people but, he can cope and recover much better overall in everyday life.
We decided to try some agility equipment with him; to help continue building his confidence and have some new fun.
I am not sure what order the videos will load but…. I started with some equipment on the ground randomly for him to interact with if he wanted to. Then we stood up the hoops in the yard for 3 days for him to acclimate to. Well, today I tried interacting with him near them and was able to get him to pass through in less than 5 minutes. I am so happy for him knowing the struggles he has overcome. Some other accomplishments are: his general dog- human resource guarding has not shown in over a year, he has been able to take short parallel walks with Cassie without extreme anxiety or frustration. Play bows are showing up steadily in his behaviors and he has recently started a “going under” (polite) approach when interacting with us. He still only has limited interactions with Titan being on the meds but….. he is still trying!
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@jenz I absolutely loved watching these videos and seeing the final result at the end one and how happy he was. I loved your patience and waiting for him to be comfortable. I actually went back and read your post from the first time again. Such dedication and amazing work you have done! I am so glad you are getting good results with the medication! This is just an absolute joy to see!
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Thank you so much; your feedback and kind words are appreciated!
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@jenz , I was so glad to read this update. How lucky Barkley is to have you in his corner. ????
The progression you show in the various videos of him learning to walk through the hoop was so lovely to watch!!! Thank you for sharing.
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Thank you for watching and, for your feedback! Its always to nice to hear support from others- positive reinforcement!
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