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Helping a dog and owner with calm behavior out in the world
Hi everyone! Happy Sunday and Happy October. I hope you’re all doing well.
I need some feedback and ideas to help one of my clients. His four legged companion is a 2.5 yr old black lab (I’ve talked about them previously). I have been trying to help establish a calm behavior. The owner’s goal is to have his dog be a little more calm out in public so he can take his dog more places and the owner can still enjoy himself.
We went to a restaurant yesterday to establish a baseline and see where to start. I have to say, for taking a lab into a heavily food saturated area, he did very well. The fact that there wasn’t a puddle of drool on the ground and stolen food is quite impressive!
I think I need to approach this from two angles but want some feedback. The first is establishing a calm behavior at home with a calm marker word and then gradually adding focus on the owner. After that, beginning to generalize the behavior out and about.
I think the second part of this equation is desensitization. In the real world, it’s never perfect but I think one thing we could do next time we try this restaurant or some other location is to pick a less high traffic time of day. I think we hit the middle of the lunch rush at 12:45 p.m.
The owner was very frustrated yesterday for a bit and I understand and I empathize. I want to really help him succeed because I know how difficult it can be.
Thanks in advance to this amazing community!
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17 Replies
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Hi @zaneb , you are so right to carefully select public locations that are not so difficult for the dog that he can’t succeed. The goal should be to create repeated, rewardable successes, and then gradually select places that add a bit more challenge. There are numerous things that can make a location difficult, including noise, movement, number of people (or other dogs present), etc. But you can factor in distance as well — the more distance, at first, the easier it is for the dog to be successful.
The other thing I want to mention is that you may be looking to teach two distinct behaviors —
- One may be the dog learning to settle peacefully in a location (like at a park bench or outdoor cafe) WITHOUT having to be focused on the pet parent. You might consider training a settled behavior on a mat that would be easy to carry to various locations. Once trained, putting out the mat can be the ‘cue’ for the dog to settle.
- The other would be teaching good focus on the pet parent, which I believe would be more applicable to moving through public spaces when distractions are around.
Does that make sense?
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@virginiad : Thank you for replying to @zaneb . I love finding the gems of knowledge that you and Bruce always shed on these issues! I look forward to reading them and learning!
- As for the “settled behavior” on mat, is this a similar thing to sending the dog to place and teaching Stay with distance, duration and distractions?
- The focus on pet parent: is this also like Watch me, for going on walks?
Sorry for asking more questions.
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This is the place to ask questions, @bernerlabreclectus !
I view the settle-in-public behavior a bit differently than sending a dog to a mat to lie down and stay, regardless of the distractions or where I’m positioned or what I’m doing. When in public, the dog will typically be at your feet and you’re not going anywhere. I would shape this behavior, beginning at home: dog is on leash, a transportable mat is conveniently on the ground near us so it’s easy for dog to step on. I place treat on mat. I then wait for some signs of ‘settling.’ Perhaps dog sits, I then treat on mat. Eventually, dog lies down, I treat on mat. I continue to deliver treats on the mat as the dog maintains that position. My relaxed position/behavior is the cue for the dog to settle on the mat near me. We then practice in a variety of locations, gradually working around more distractions.I do something similar during lessons or walks with some clients, though without a mat. When people stop to talk, that’s a signal for the dog to settle at our feet while the adults are yapping. We make sure to notice when the dog chooses to relax/settle and reward quietly for this.
As far as focusing on the pet parent during walks in public, I personally don’t use a ‘watch me’ cue, nor do I expect the dog to give me sustained eye contact during walking. I know if she is paying attention because she is easily adjusting her movement/direction based on my movements (and I reward for this). If I say my dog’s name, I expect her to look at my face. If I stop to let cars, people, or dogs go by, I reward my dog for staying near me with eyes on me.
Hope that makes sense. If not, I welcome more questions.-
It does make sense! However, is client bringing this mat out for the duration of private lessons and rewarding for duration of being on it, in any position, at the owner’s feet? Regardless of what else is going on around them, if they are on the mat, by choice, they are getting rewarded at random intervals?
I only ask further, as I’m curious if the mat is the cue purposely, or if it just becomes the cue? I hope THAT question makes sense!
Regardless, I’ve seen my mentor use them in group class setting similarly, from day 1. However, the newbie pet parent seems often unable to listen to the instructor effectively while paying attention to paying their dog for choosing to be on mat.
I think it would have greater chance of success in a private setting. Usually I start shaping the dog’s “calm” myself, while we are talking or discussing instructions; asking the dog for calm behaviors, whether it’s standing or sitting or down…this has helped, but often, it seems to have the side effect of watching me when the owner wants to work with the dog. Do you suggest starting this with a mat from the beginning of a private home lesson? Curious, because I have a new client who’s a 10-no old male Neo mastiff and his jumping up on the small female owner is causing bruising and damaging her feelings of the dog…she’s really fed up, because he doesn’t do it to the male owner. Plus they have a 2 year old female English mastiff who doesn’t do this behavior, so she’s at her wits end. I am wondering if this would be a good place to start, creating a calm, settled dog at her feet.
Thank you again, @virginiad , for explaining! Any videos you could share with us of the finished behavior or process of creating the behavior?
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I understand your concern, @bernerlabreclectus , and the beauty of our work is that we can fine-tune our instruction for a particular client, making it easier when needed.
I think it’g great that you’re the one to demo the settle-at-your-feet behavior first, doing so in a super-easy setting, while you talk the client through it. You could even video an initial training segment so they have a visual reminder. When the client does it herself, she’ll be solely focused on the dog, with just a bit of coaching from you as needed.
It’s very common for me to do the initial work with a very challenging dog. For instance, I had a client with two VERY LOUD and jumpy maltipoos, one who was excessively so. Because of his small size, I could literally ignore everything he did around me until — finally — he was quiet and still for at least 10 sec. Then the treat flow began. By purposefully placing the treat on the floor in front of him, it soon inspired a down position. In short order, this dog was reliably lying down at my feet while I talked with client. (BTW, no mat was used in this case. It’s really optional, unless you have a fussy, short-haired dog who may balk at lying down outside/in public on cold or damp surfaces.) No specific verbal cue was given to maltipoo. Instead, it was the contextual cue of ‘adults are talking and ignoring you.’ Once the dog had some foundation on this skill, I asked the client to take over with the rewarding, prompting her when needed. By lesson #2, the dog barely jumped or barked, and swiftly was lying at our feet. He was terribly clever… and food motivated!
As another example, I’m now working with a VERY challenging adolescent St. Bernard/Poodle X who is already 75lbs. and beastly loud and beastly physical with his repeated jumping up and pummeling. He reaches faces with open mouth and hits with his teeth. I cannot simply ignore him and wait it out. We’re working through a different approach with him. I’ve been repeatedly encouraging a head halter, thus far on seemingly deaf ears…
In your example of the Mastiff, I’d suggest he be tethered to something sturdy with your client remaining at the edge of the zone ONLY if his paws are on the floor, but instantly stepping out if he even looks like he’s about to jump. A head halter may be a useful tool as well in the early stages of his training. No person should have to endure being hurt by their dog. With a dog that size, it’s way too risky to wait for the jumping to extinguish through lack of reinforcement and, frankly, some dogs find the jumping itself rewarding (like the dog I mention above) regardless of whether it leads to attention.
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Such great advice here, @virginiad ! I had a similar case awhile ago – great giant of a dog with all the (Friendly) muzzle-punching, claw-mauling excited greeting that could put someone in urgent care, for sure.
Because of my intake form, I knew what I was getting into when I arrived at the consultation and had the owner leash the dog, then tether her to a post before I came in the door. While the client went through all the details that they always need to say at the beginning of the consult, my attention was on shaping the dog’s behavior. It looked to the client like I was doing nothing except throwing food.
But within 5-10 minutes, we had a calm dog in a down position and when the client came up for a breath, they thought I was some kind of wizard. ????♀️ haha
By the end of the lesson, they’ve also got the skill of managing behavior/preventing unwanted behavior/ discriminate rewards/ and a start on shaping and we’re on our way!
It sounds a lot more difficult than it is, to be honest – and even if a trainer is new to shaping, you can get a solid start by using a tether to prevent unwanted behavior.
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@bernerlabreclectus , you might also check out Suzanne Clothier’s relaxation protocol. She builds a relaxed behavior in the dog that is cued by her own relaxed posture. It’s fantastic.
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I really can’t add to much with what Virginia said. Excellent advice!!!!!!! One of the things I like to do is mark the stress signals that the dog gives off like yawning for example. When dog gives off stress signals it’s the dogs natural way to get back to homeostasis. When you mark and reward these signals then the dog starts to do the signals more which helps calm and reduce stress.
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I really like what you added to the conversation about marking the yawn and rewarding. I have not done this, yet. I have an almost 2 year old female Dane client, who I think would benefit from this, and Virginia’s above ideas. Thank you for sharing, I always look forward to the insightful replies you give to us here at DD.
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Great idea Bruce – I’ve done similar; marking and rewarding shake offs is my favorite because it’s such a full-body release for the dog.
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I love all the ideas already mentioned. I wanna reiterate really moving slowly and at the dogs pace. I like to think of boring as a positive thing in this case and we want to make these excursions as boring (and stress free) for the dog as possible. The other main difference I see between training a “go to place” and “settle” is the emotional component. During a settle we want our dogs relaxed and comfortable and I never demand that they settle unless it is a relaxing time for them—I don’t expect them to settle when they are stressed. I might , however, ask them to go to a mat to manage or deescalate a hard situations. Just my little thoughts
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@AnnaBee love what you said here – and it exactly ties in with this Emotions Discussion, don’t you think? – Would love to see your thoughts over there!
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@AnnaBee these are great points! I think a lot of times (and I am including myself in this because I am guilty of it too) we want our dogs to settle down when they just don’t have the capability in that particular moment. For my dog, this happens when people come over. Initially, he can’t settle down because he’s either nervous or he’s really excited. I think being careful with our word choice here is important. 🙂 I don’t ask him to settle, especially if he’s clearly stressed out. I let him do his thing and when he’s ready, I try to ask him to lay down. I also just relax and sit in a chair and that tends to help.
I think word choice and explaining things is important to our clients. I know they have expectations and I know that my client is particularly frustrated with his dog (he has expressed that he feels bad when he gets frustrated and I empathize with him, because who hasn’t been there?!)
On that note, my client did get back to me. He says that his dog doing a little better at home but is still having issues when going out and about, which I am not surprised about. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to explain the concept of generalization (and the three D’s of dog training)? It is clearly an issue on my end and I need to be more clear and explain it easier than I have been..
TIA!
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Hi @zaneb , I generally try to avoid the ‘fancy’ words (like generalization) when speaking with clients, though I have to admit what a treat it is to ‘talk shop’ with a client who is well-versed in behavior analysis and the like — no worries about sifting through words to make things easy to understand. But I digress….
One idea you might find helpful — I often use the analogy of teaching from kindergarten to a PhD level of skills, and explain how a student needs to work their way up from one grade to the next, building difficulty gradually as they move through the grades. The rungs on a ladder would be a good analogy too.
With the client you specifically mention, are there places he could go with his dog that would be more realistic right now, i.e., minimal distractions or triggers? You may have to spell that out, or make specific location suggestions. This may even include the need to DRIVE the dog somewhere to avoid situations that are too challenging.
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Hi @virginiad Thanks for the message! I really appreciate it. I agree with everything you’ve said.
I am working on using less fancy/scientific terms but it’s too much. I am striving to make things more relatable and easier to understand.
So, as of right now it’s hard for my client to take his dog to places like the coffee shop and to work. There is sometimes another dog at work and that makes it nearly impossible to achieve relaxation. My client’s dog is a lab and he’s very people oriented, which makes things challenging. I don’t think I need to necessarily tell my client to avoid taking his dog to work (I don’t want to deny him that opportunity unless it makes him want to pull his hair out). However, I think discussing it with my client and establishing clear expectations in this case is good (i.e. his dog not being able to relax on cue at work at this stage). What do you think?
He stated that he’s getting better at relaxing at home. I am going to meet with him this weekend and I think we should assess how he does inside the house, then maybe try outside in his backyard. Just trying to establish a good baseline/starting point. Thoughts?
Thanks in advance!
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Yes, I think building relaxation skills in small increments and in new locations with gradually increasing distractions is ideal.
I worry when a client puts their dog in a position to ‘fail’ — it’s possible it can undo some of the valuable training he’s done up to that point. But if it’s essential for the dog to go to work with him, maybe you can suggest that he:
- Provide a good dose of aerobic exercise before going to work
- Bring a collection of long-lasting chews and calming food puzzles (Woof Pupsicle, Toppl, Kong, etc — stuff that inspires the dog to lie down and lick) to help the dog settle in the office (just be sure there’s not an issue with resource guarding, especially if another dog can wander up to him)
- Set up a gate and maybe even an x-pen/barrier further back in the office space so the dog can’t rush up to greet coworkers
Do you think those ideas might be helpful?
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Hi @virginiad Yes I definitely think all those ideas would be helpful. A few of those things I have brought up to him in the past, but we will definitely revisit them.
I agree with you. I don’t want him to set his dog up to fail, especially because I know the owner gets frustrated with his dog sometimes. I want them to see some progress to keep their bond strong.
Thank you for these great suggestions! I’ll let you know it goes this weekend!
-Zane
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