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How to use your fist to teach LLW! -Video and Discussion
I had the honor of interviewing CATCH Workshop instructor and owner of New York’s School for the Dogs Kate Senisi CPDT-KA, for some tips and tricks on LLW.
Here’s a fun snip from our chat where she demonstrates the “Fist Method” of luring a dog.
Do you think this method might work for our pups who sometimes get stuck as well as for those who sometimes move too fast?
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21 Replies
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I did that with our neighbor’s dog teaching him to walk with me. However I had treats in my fist and would give him one every now and again. Is that what she is talking about? Or is it teaching the dog to respond to the closed fist regardless of there is a treat or not?
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Good question @Louise . You can begin with treats in your hand – that will work. You could also shape a hand target, where the dog learns to follow the closed fist because it’s a target for their nose. You can do that with treats in your hand at first, or not. If you choose not to have treats in your hand to begin, can you think of how you would teach the target?
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Would that be like a touch? Get the dog to touch his nose to your fist and then reward with the other hand?
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@Catherine This is really cool! I will try to incorporate it into my lessons for some dogs who have difficulty focusing on their owner.
I am using something similar with a cue (i am sure I didn’t create it, but I tailored it to a hound-Lab mix pup) called “Noses Up!” to solve her sidewalk snacking issue…she’s around 8 mo old and is doing some wonderful spurts of Heeling and always LLW (we started at 4 months on LLW). She tries to eat berries from the trees, which are everywhere on sidewalks in her subdivision. Since she already enjoys “me” as her main motivator, rewarding by yummy bits of treats along our walks, I thought saying, “Noses up!” followed by an empty thumbs-up signal (on her side), for the duration of whatever is on the ground that I don’t want her to pick up, would work. It does, and she often follows my thumb cue, with her eyes and nose, and I release her by “good girl!” and treat. Then I tell her, “go sniff!” when we’ve reached a safe area again.
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Brilliant, Paula @Bernerlabreclectus ! We’d love to see a video of that in action. I’ve not seen a thumbs up signal like that before and it’s so good you have a unique cue for this behavior. Well done on all counts!
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I love this idea! Thanks Paula!
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This is really cool idea. Thanks @Bernerlabreclectus
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Thank you, @Abbie & @Catherine ! I will try to get a short clip when I see her again on Tuesday. She’s one of my training and midday walking clients, so I found the motivation for the cue on our daily walk last Tuesday. We practiced it again on Thursday and I will see her again Tuesday and Thursday before my next training session with the owner on the following Saturday. I’m so excited to try to get the clip now. I often think, as a new trainer, that I have to do everything by the book, but sometimes it’s OK to create something new that communicates to a specific dog, I guess. Yay for everything I’ve learned here at CATCH! You are all so motivating!!!
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I often think, as a new trainer, that I have to do everything by the book, but sometimes it’s OK to create something new that communicates to a specific dog. – Paula M.
ABSOLUTELY! This is the ART of dog training, Paula! @Bernerlabreclectus
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I got a couple video clips with the puppy, Opal, performing the “Noises up!” cue (thumbs up hand signal). We walked past lots of berries, which she normally sucks up, which scared me into creating this cue. I’ll be teaching it to the owner this Saturday. Let me know what you think.
The first clip, the treat is in my fist while I give her the cue. The second clip, we start that way and then transition to an empty thumbs-up cue, paying her after we reached a safe zone.
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Hey @Catherine the video is not working. I could hear the audio, but the video is stuck. Is there a way to fix it?
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Oops sorry, i didnt see through the entire thread. Got it. Thanks
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???? Yay – Glad you found them, @RADS !
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@Bernerlabreclectus Great video. Its so helpful to see a picture. Opal is definitely getting this. I love what Catherine said. Once you have the criteria (how high with the nose, eye contact too- I personally would go for the lowest nose that works to avoid neck impingement.) this becomes a duration signal so I’m wondering if another way you could practice getting duration is to start by practicing with Opal on your side (standing not sitting since you will want to be moving for this one) and just building up with rate of reinforcement to get the duration. Once you build up to say 10 seconds in a stand then vary it (1 second, 5 seconds. three seconds etc.) then start to take steps while practicing the hand signal (no distractions around). Then you can start to plant low value distractions (kibble in closed deli containers with holes on top etc.) and practice going by those.
In addition to peanut butter in a kong, I’ve used those baby food pouches with some success. Also there is a treat called a bark pouch, very high value so not sure if Opal will get too excited but a great licky option as well-I’m going to try this with my dog instead of saying “leave it” every minute. Our post Halloween streets here were full of broken eggs and candy wrappers. Augh. Thanks for this creative solution.
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Oh thank you, @Abbie ! I will definitely take your advice, I don’t want her to get an impingement. I love your ideas about working from a stand and putting the kibble on the ground to work inside. That’s much better than what I was trying to do this weekend with Opal’s mom…we went out and took Opal for a training walk and I suggested using small stretches of empty sidewalk to give the cue and practice the hand signal. Great news is, the owner really liked the cue and Opal did pretty well, even in the berry zones…still snagged a couple, but I like this idea so much more. Who cares if she gets extra kibble and that is a good way to practice for both.
I appreciate the feedback on the treat delivery, too, and will tell Opal’s mama about the baby food pouch option. I feel like half the battle in training this really cool dog is just that factor of rewarding without feeling mauled!
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Loved the videos. You got this!! Opal is on the right track.
Thank you for taking the time and sharing the videos. I know it is hard to shoot and at the same time capture the training. HaHa.
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@Catherine @Abbie @RADS let me know what you think of the videos. As this is still a very informal cue I would love to know from more experienced trainers what I might think about doing better for Opal. Also, side note: the owner loves Opal and is the main trainer, but amazingly, this is her first dog and she has always been a little afraid of dogs…therefore, she would rather THROW the treat to Opal’s mouth than give Opal a chance to mouth/teeth it. It makes it hard to train a dog to keep her nose up when the treat falls on the ground.☺️
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@Bernerlabreclectus Paula, I apologize for the delay in commenting on these! You are off to a great start with this unique and important cue. It’s SOOO good, and such a fun hand signal. If I’m understanding it correctly, this is basically a nose target cue – for her nose to follow your thumb? Is that the goal? If so, I’d be really careful about when your marker happens – that it only happens while her nose is in the exactly correct position.
For Opal’s mom – I totally get it when they are afraid of teeth/slime or whatever the issue – especially with a grabby labby pup!! What about having her put a licky treat – like peanut butter – on a metal spoon or inside a big Kong – that she lowers down for a *QUICK* lick, and then pulls back up out of the way? There are also licky-sticks and other such things but I don’t like them for grabby labby pups because they tend to BITE them which causes the little roller ball to pop out (and into their throats!) or a huge chunk of the lickey stick to come off.
Does that help?
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@Catherine : THANK YOU for the idea on putting peanut butter in a Kong for her to have a quick lick! Really a fabulous idea that I think they both can handle. Opal already LOVES her Kong when she’s crated, this is an amazing idea.
Thank you also for watching my videos and don’t apologize! I know you have so much going on heading this site up. I appreciate all the valuable feedback. I’ll look at cleaning up my marker! As for the nose-target, I guess I’m trying to give her something to target, with the thumbs up, but not necessarily to touch it with her nose, just a focal point for that hound-Lab nose and kind of a point to watch with her eyes as well…
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Super, Paula, then be sure to be clear in your mind where you want Opal’s face to be. Is “up” enough? If so, how “up”? Must she be making eye contact? Where is her head? Is the duration only as long as your hand is there? Can she look away in between? If so, when? How much? The more precise you are with your goal, the cleaner you can be with shaping it, and explaining it to Opal’s mom. Hope that helps! @Bernerlabreclectus
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