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“I’ll be Home Soon” Book
I am reading the book “I’ll be Home Soon” … I came across the paragraph in the picture below. Wouldn’t it be likely to unintentionally create resource guarding by using this technique of taking the toy away every time you come?
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22 Replies
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Hi @Anna – this is a great point! This technique definitely could exacerbate issues in a dog with resource guarding issues. I believe the idea here is that the stress caused by the owner’s departure is a more likely result than stress induced by the owner’s removing an item but I’d love to hear what other members think.
What are some of your thoughts, folks? Do you feel this is technique that could cause resource guarding issues? Why or why not?
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Interesting point. I think the key difference is what happens after the Kong is removed. Does the dog get ignored or get enriching interactions with the owner? If the dog has a good interaction awaiting as an exchange for the Kong they may happily give it up.
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@Anna such an important thing to consider! I think @LisaD is right that what happens during and after the interaction is critical. I teach my clients to always offer a trade anytime they need to take something away. This may be using a cue such as “lets trade” and offering another high value treat before removing the item, or using “find it” and then tossing the treat away before picking up the item. In this particular situation, I think that using find it and then tossing the treat so they run out of the crate to get it while you pick up the Kong would be a more desirable series of events.
Does anyone else offer a trade or use find it when getting objects from their dogs?
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Two great ideas for teaching a non-conflict way to get back a valued item from a resource guarding dog. Nicely done, Amy!
I teach my clients to always offer a trade anytime they need to take something away. This may be using a cue such as “lets trade” and offering another high value treat before removing the item, or using “find it” and then tossing the treat away before picking up the item. – Amy M.
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I’m big on trading and this is one of those examples where your verbal skills as a trainer come into play Big Time. People understandably think you’re rewarding the dog for “stealing” if they took something they’re not supposed to have. The reality is you are. BUT – the stealing can be dealt with later. (I’ve trained chronic stealers/guarders to just bring me/the owner the stuff they steal, they like that game better after lots of rewards! They come running to you with the socks, the remote, the tissue – but their tail is wagging and they’re ready to place the item at your feet.)
The main thing you have to get across is that when you trade you’re working on changing the emotional state – which is the real cause of the aggressive part, the guarding. The dog is scared and stressed about losing a possession. So trading addresses that stress/fear that leads to the defensive aggression (guarding). Once you change the emotional state, you can work on all of the preceding behaviors.-
Hah! My dog is a pro trader. Now her theiving is very much a request for attention. She doesn’t care about the object – in fact she handles it with care now (generally). She will take the same typical shoe of my mothers and flop it around loudly in front of us. Louder tossing and flopping if ignored. She became so good at trades for a treat that we eventually upped the game by taking something of hers. “Oh really? Well then I shall have this delicious chew bone for myself and we are squared!” (immediately she trades) That is when she started to learn that trades were ineffective for treats and plays mildly now just to let us know she is seeking attention. If she has something very important the tone becomes a serious drop it followed by hesitation and then a drop (“Hey I just wanted to be your good girl!”) followed by praise and a transition to some other form of attention or play. She will even treat a tissue gently if it gets her point across. That was not always the case – formerly “I will shred this to pieces until someone hustles to the treat closet.”
The trick is figuring out what need she is trying to communicate? Ex: gingerly tearing a paper plate often means shes hungry. She isnt a good eater so weve taught her to bring us a plate if shes hungry or wants more (she gets probiotics on a paper plate so its usually hanging around). And of course the shoe usually means “get off the couch – lets go outside.” For the most part she has given up being an olympic stealing champion and now is is all about how many of her own chews she can sneak outside to bury. She will drop them on command before going outside and then later show you where theyve been buried (when you didnt noticr) to initiate chase. Smart girl!
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Yes @AmyMc – I certainly teach Trade, Find It, and Leave It and generally try to avoid Drop It. I’m always seeking ways to keep things fun!
To me, Trade and/or Find It seem like a much more equitable and respectful ways to ask your dog to give something up upon request. Using these terms can also keep the tone of the person’s request upbeat and help avoid the stern (sometimes aversive) ways that some people tell their dogs to Drop It.
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I have been treating a lot of resource guarding dogs and what I have found is that trying to trade is very difficult. I have found that dogs can very day to day on what their prized possession is so it is difficult to figure out what to trade with. I have had dogs where I tried to trade steak for a stick and they will not give it up. I also think it creates a lot of anxiety for the dog on what item to keep or take. I think trading is great for dogs that have no guarding issues. Once I determine any type of guarding, I use the guarding protocol that was taught in Catch workshop. It works great. Just my two cents
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@bmacwatt you bring up some REALLY good points. I definitely agree that with some dogs, trading for items can increase their conflict about the interaction (and I definitely don’t use it for dogs who are already displaying guarding issues). I recently saw a golden doodle who bit his owner in the face when she bent over to trade him a treat for a Kleenex he had in his possession.
I really like using find it for these dogs because it can be helpful to diffuse the tension. It should be standard that “find it” is played OFTEN away from situations where it needs to be used to move the dog away from something. Doing this creates a pleasant (and often more automatic) response for the dog to happily move away to scavenge for treats.
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I like the idea of find it . I have two clients right now that have dogs that will immediately try swallow the item they are guarding if you even head in their direction.
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Different degrees of intensity can require very different approaches (literally and figuratively!)
Cases like this push the creativity, that’s for sure. Tossing treats (as in find it) – has that helped with these situations you describe Bruce @bmacwatt?
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Right now the consistent thing for me for resource guarding is finding the distance where the dog shows no possession of item such as hard stare or hovering over item, etc. Then I toss high value items at dog at that distance. I don’t say anything or even look at dog. I slowly moved in inches for about 4 months and repeated the same steps. The dog was a severe guarder and would usually swallow item to avoid anyone talking the item away. Dog had surgery 3 times before they called me. The other thing I did was had the owner walk around house with dog on leash. we started with 1 sock on floor . I had owner walk near sock (just out of reach) and every time dog turned to owner at look at them I had them click and reward. I switched to more socks and other items. I did this in conjunction with tossing treats. The dog now has no issues with guarding. This took a long time. To be honest I wasn’t sure about walking around with leash was going to work. I look forward to using find it. This sounds like a great idea
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Wow, @bmacwatt Bruce, excellent job!! I really love that you incorporated check-ins/attention to handler in the training plan. Good work!!
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Right now the consistent thing for me for resource guarding is finding the distance where the dog shows no possession of item such as hard stare or hovering over item, etc. Then I toss high value items at dog at that distance. I don’t say anything or even look at dog. – Bruce W.
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This is such an interesting discussion. I think @AmyMc brought up a key point: these skills, whether trade up or find it need to be practiced frequently out of the context of resource guarding. In other words, build the skills when the dog is not guarding.
????I teach “trade up” as part of my puppy protocol. I once had an extremely resource guarding puppy (with a host of other aggression issues) attend puppy class. His owners were really dedicated to working with him. He’s 10 years old now and the owner still sends me photos of his recent trades. He actually goes looking for things to bring her so she’ll trade up. One time, she gave him a green bean. He didn’t eat it, but cached it. Later, he brought it to her to exchange for a cookie. ???? @Anna @bmacwatt
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Going back to the original discussion I think it’s important to know if the dog is a resource guarded before creating a training plan such as what they are describing in this reading!
To everyone else and their methods of tackling resource guarding was great to read, all great methods! I personally break it done to detailed “bone work” very similar what @bmacwatt talked about. —Also great to be back and using this app ????
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@ggomez welcome back!
You’re exactly right when you say that knowing whether or not a dog has guarding issues may very well change your training plan. Question for all of you, do you ask questions like “does your dog guard objects” during an initial session with them?
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That’s a great questions! I can’t say I specifically ask if their dog guards but for every consultation there is a list of questions that I ask to have an overall better idea of the dog I’m working with. This helps me keep the client focused on the dog and their needs!
When thinking about taking an item out of a crate with the dog still inside in someway still makes me uneasy, so I love the instincts of making sure the dog is always being led to success and not failure!
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@ggomez sounds like you do a great job of setting both clients AND dogs up for success!
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Thanks Amy!!
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This is another great reason for really learning dog body language. Sometimes the pet parents are completely oblivious to some of the subtle signals of guarding, and if the dog hasn’t reached the point of snarling or growling, they may be missing it altogether. I’ve learned to be VERY respectful of a new-to-me dog’s space and things. I almost always see if I can call them away from the tight spot or lure them off the position by tossing treats, to avoid the issue in cases where I suspect the dog could be uncomfortable. Another spot where recording your client training session is a huge help. If things do go awry, you have a learning record to return to for reference. Great conversation here!
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That’s great that they were able to work through those issues to the point where the dog was offering items to his owner!
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