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John Fisher’s 2-Reward Method
Many years ago, I learned about an interesting technique presented by John Fisher called the “2-Reward Method.” It’s a bit of an advanced technique and not necessarily the first step I’d take when working with dogs who display aggression toward other dogs (or people) when on leash, but a valuable technique to have in my toolkit.
Because there are many underlying motivations for on-leash ‘reactivity,’ this technique by no means works with every dog, but in the right circumstances it can yield a quick and profound reduction in those aggressive displays.
When using this technique, you’ll need safe and sturdy equipment, bomb-proof helper dogs, and an excellent read on body language. If you’re new to working with aggressive dogs, it’d be ideal to work with a knowledgeable mentor if you want to explore this technique.
In a nutshell, the technique looks like this:
- The dog is securely and safely tethered to an immovable post of some sort, with the pet parent standing close by.
- Once settled in that position, another person appears in the distance with a non-reactive helper dog. Approach is made toward the tethered dog gradually and in a zig-zag fashion (rather than approaching head-on).
- When the tethered dog begins to react (barking and/or lunging and/or growling, etc.), two things happen: (1) The person and helper dog stop where they are (no retreat, no approach) and stand by calmly; (2) The pet parent immediately walks 10’ or so away from their reacting dog, back turned and silent
- When the reacting dog quiets down (often, looking toward their person or sniffing the ground), two rewards happen: (1) The other person and helper dog GO AWAY; (2) The pet parent RETURNS to their dog
- This is repeated until the dog is no longer reacting, even when the helper dog comes quite close, and even as approaches are modified to be straight on.
Have you ever worked with a dog who you think could benefit from this technique? Let’s discuss it and brainstorm together.
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10 Replies
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I have never heard of this technique and I am very curious about it.
As I read your “nutshell” I have several questions (to learn from another perspective, please!).
1. “When the tethered dog begins to react…” I have always tried to keep a distance where the “tethered” dog does NOT react. I know sometimes it is hard to keep a dog under threshold especially if that threshold is unknown or changes.
Question 1: Is the criteria to get the dog to react so the “rewards can be applied?
I know the theory is when we are working with emotions, we are not likely re-enforcing the operant behavior but, what if some of the behavior has now been learned and the risk is there to possible reward to the behavior or, the dog is conflicted?
Question 2: What are your thoughts about this procedure is seemingly allowing the tethered dog to practice the “unwanted” behaviors?
” The person and helper dog stop where they are (no retreat, no approach) and stand by calmly;”
Question 3: What if the reacting dog is very persistent? Do you really want to wait until the reacting dog settles vs. possibly increasing arousal and frustration? Or is this where all the knowing body language comes into play? Then we do need to retreat with the helper dog?
I see where it may work but I also see where it can have downfalls.
It also could not have presented at a better time….
I ask partly too because I actually just took on a case where I think the dog’s barking lunging and growling is likely partly due to practicing it for 3 years and it has worked (on an E-fence collar ????), the dog also seems conflicted as he was not socialized well as a pup, genetics (Cairn terrier?/Shih- Tzu supposedly). I wonder if this technique is worth trying with him!
Thanks for making me (and the group) think and, giving us an opportunity to learn and grow as trainers and pet guardians!!!
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Hi @jenz — I copied your questions (in italics) and then added some responses below:
1. “When the tethered dog begins to react…” I have always tried to keep a distance where the “tethered” dog does NOT react. I know sometimes it is hard to keep a dog under threshold especially if that threshold is unknown or changes.
I often choose that route as well. I certainly wouldn’t use this with a dog who is displaying obvious cringing terror of another dog. But with specific dogs, this method provides a very quick learning opportunity. For instance, if their person’s presence MATTERS (including the possibility that it makes the dog feel like they have ‘backup’ when they begin these displays), removing the backup can be a very impactful consequence.
Question 1: Is the criteria to get the dog to react so the “rewards can be applied?
When the reaction begins, negative punishment is applied (person moves away, withdrawing their attention) AND the reaction has no impact on the helper dog (no approach or retreat). And then yes, when the reaction ends, the dog receives both rewards.
I know the theory is when we are working with emotions, we are not likely re-enforcing the operant behavior but, what if some of the behavior has now been learned and the risk is there to possible reward to the behavior or, the dog is conflicted?
Not really sure I’m following you.
Question 2: What are your thoughts about this procedure is seemingly allowing the tethered dog to practice the “unwanted” behaviors?
” The person and helper dog stop where they are (no retreat, no approach) and stand by calmly;”
If a dog didn’t stop reacting after a period of time, this technique isn’t right for them. It also likely speaks to the fact that their person’s presence isn’t an important part of setting the stage for this behavior.
Question 3: What if the reacting dog is very persistent? Do you really want to wait until the reacting dog settles vs. possibly increasing arousal and frustration? Or is this where all the knowing body language comes into play? Then we do need to retreat with the helper dog?
See above.
I see where it may work but I also see where it can have downfalls.
That’s why it’s not right for every dog, by any stretch.
It also could not have presented at a better time….
I ask partly too because I actually just took on a case where I think the dog’s barking lunging and growling is likely partly due to practicing it for 3 years and it has worked (on an E-fence collar ), the dog also seems conflicted as he was not socialized well as a pup, genetics (Cairn terrier?/Shih- Tzu supposedly). I wonder if this technique is worth trying with him!
If you’re talking about an invisible fence, hasn’t the dog been practicing his reactions to passing dogs INDEPENDENTLY? If so, not sure if the person being present will matter.
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Ahh, now that you mention “if their person’s presence MATTERS”, I can see how this method can be effective.
Thanks for clarifying!
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Sure thing!
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Great discussion!
This is nuanced stuff, and as Virginia pointed out at first, it’s an advanced method, one to try when other methods have failed…. Jen, think of “response” more subtley than “react” and it may help. So, you might see a dog respond with an alert and growl… the owner moves away and now the dog’s attention shifts to the owner’s leaving rather than the trigger. Well timed, the dog learns that their behavior makes the owner walk away. For dogs who are aggressive only when they have “perceived backup” as we often see in fear cases, this is a great technique. It also works when the dog is VERY ATTACHED to their person. So, on the flip side, it’s not going to be a technique for shelter dogs whose bond(s) have been broken or who are barking without their person present as in the e-fence situation.
As with any technique we discuss on this platform, the idea is to create thinking and curiousity. Sometimes looking at a new method creates more questions, like yours Jen – and that’s amazing! I’m grateful for your deep thinking on this. And, remember that until you’ve seen it or used it, any method is just a theory… the dogs are the experts and we are the ones who are learning what works (or not) for each one.
I once had a case where I tried something very similar to this, thinking the negative punishment was my only option (we had tried R+ techniques, to no avail.) The dog was completely unfazed by the owner’s departure. I was quick to abandon the technique because it was obvious that there was no impact. I then went to a CAT – Constructional Aggression Treatment – approach with some success during 2 sessions before the owner gave up. … just to point out that these methods work, but they take time and commitment in some cases.
As Virginia said, this 2 reward method can be very quick if the dog is motivated by their owner’s presence and you can make the association between their display and the owner’s departure…. but it takes great communication, teamwork and commitment.
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Thanks for your input.
The case I mention has a lot going on! Dog is left unattended in yard to bark at EVERYTHING which, I think has carried over to ALL THE TIME (he knows nothing else). He actually barks when owners are present too, on walks etc. He barks when out of site of people, too. He just has to know someone or something is near, even just hearing something.
Not sure of the why in my case other than practicing it for so long, as well as likely other factors. I am going with giving the dogs skills and enrichment at this time to start. He needs something else to focus on other than barking!
Waiting for him to be cleared medically and if vet thinks meds may be in order.
If, nothing else works and his mom is a factor it may be worth trying this method. As we knw, there are likely multiple factors contributing to behavior and there are likely multiple solutions. Just have to find one that works and triage.
“but it takes great communication, teamwork and commitment.” If only it was easier for those who want the behaviors to be “fixed” now, like in the 1 session, now.
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@jenz , how wealthy we’d be if we had that magic wand to wave to “fix” everything!
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Glad you are consulting with the vet on this case… I’m curious to know if they find anything! Please keep us posted. Enrichment should help too.
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This is a very cool discussion. I see how this method builds on the constructive approach with adding in the proximity of the person which could multiply the effect. All good things to keep in mind when dealing with reactivity.
I understood Jen’s question about emotions to be that when a dog is over threshold, it is very difficult to operationalize a new behavior because they are not in their thinking and learning zone. Is the idea with this two method to approach at a far enough distance away that the dog notices (ear flick, maybe standing forward, orienting with their eyes etc.) but not at such a level that they are over threshold so that this method of learning consequences by their actions is still effective?
In regard to Jen’s case (and this might be a separate thread) ..when I dog has practiced barking and the barking itself is now a very self rewarding behavior, what other reinforces can be introduced that “trump” the barking? Do you guys find that food is usually a better motivator?
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Hi @abbie .
With the 2-reward method, the dog has to react in the undesired way for the steps to kick in, though the reaction could just be some barking, rather than something more intense, like barking, lunging, growling, etc. Because you begin with the helper dog at a distance, you *may* elicit a moderate reaction, which is great. However, even with a full-blown reaction, the method can still be amazingly effective. It just may take the dog a bit of time to notice he’s been abandoned by his person. But even during the reaction, he’ll pretty quickly realize is that 1) the helper dog is not responding, not approaching, not retreating, and 2) there is zero feedback/instruction/reprimands/leash communication from their person.
Regarding Jen’s case, it’s certainly possible that the dog would be gleeful about learning alternative (and quiet) responses when offered high-value food to reinforce those behaviors. We won’t know until they try. ????
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