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Nail Dremel Desensitization
Ok so I’ve been trying to desensitize both my puppies to a Nail Dremel, but have been having lots of problems! Any tips for helping with this would be appreciated. I’ve included a video of yesterday with my training with Daisy.
(Edited by Catherine-Community Leader to include first portion of video.)
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14 Replies
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Hey Ruth, This sounds interesting and I’m sure we have some good tips for you guys. Please try uploading the video again, it’s not here yet. When you upload, be sure and wait until it’s completely finished with loading process before you hit post. It takes an extra couple of seconds at the end.
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I just sent it to you…it doesn’t give me an area to upload videos in the response section…maybe you can add it…
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Hi @ruthabigail
Thanks for sharing this video and great topic.
What I am seeing is that this pup is already to scared to learn or be desensitized to the process. I would scale waaaaaaay back on what you are asking.
Desensitization and counter-conditioning is often and should be a ” long” step by step systematic process.
Being up on the counter can also be causing some fear.
For example with this pup seeing her reactions I would simply start to bring my hand near her paw, mark and reward. Forget the dremel at this point.
Gradually and slowly getting to where I can lightly touch her paw with my hand or finger then holding her paw with her 100% comfortable.
The dremel will be its own process. First leaving it on the floor. When the pups simple looks at it, mark and reward. Next step is when the pup moves towards it,mark and reward, next step is when the pup touches it with any part of her body mark and reward. Eventually working to turning it on but not touching her, just repeating the above steps. This way you are building a positive association with each small step in the process.
Eventually you should be able to put each step together to form the final behavior of touching paw, holding it, turning on the dremel and touching her with it. Make sense?
Changing the pups emotional response to each step is important and will take time.
Keep us posted!
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Thank you for the solid advice! I had started slow with just doing paw touching and she had done very well, I wanted to move on but then she regressed.
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Hi Ruth,
Thanks so much for being vulnerable and coming here to ask for help! That in itself takes a ton of courage, and is exactly what we hope our members feel comfortable doing. I was able to grab your video and have stored it as a great example of where you are starting with training. When we work together, you’ll be able to post additional videos that show progress, and it will be great to see!
I agree with @jenz and am sharing a clip from your video where I would have stopped the entire session… you are recognizing that “She already doesn’t like it,” and that’s exactly where we need to start. Going beyond that point is simply asking the dog to escalate her signals, which she does.
With your permission, we could post this video in our Body Language channel and members can break down the signals so you can see them more readily.
Otherwise, we can simply stay here in HMWTC and have members support your journey on nail desensitization.
In addition to the tips @jenz has given, I might play a little game of hiding the dremel behind my back with the dog on the floor, free to move as far away as she likes. Without turning it on, bring the dremel into view and toss HIGH VALUE treats toward the dog. As she finishes eating, move the dremel out of sight. Dremel appears; chicken showers! Dremel goes away; food goes away (and you ignore her). Play for 10-15 reps then put the dremel away entirely. And go do something else.
If you continue to video your sessions, review them and share here. The process is a little time consuming but you’ll be a better trainer by the end of it!
Thanks again for bringing this interesting case!
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Thank you also for the good advice! That does make sense and I will try to start over…I really thought she was ready to move on, and yes I’d be fine with posting it elsewhere
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Hi @ruthabigail – thanks for being so teachable. This is how we all learn together. You are setting a great example for our other members.
Let’s talk a bit more about what “ready to move on” might look like… seeing the video with new eyes, what do you think you might be looking for, in terms of her body language?
(Also, please remind me of her name!)
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Yes, I agree – great step by step instructions @jenz!
This sort of cooperative care is so challenging.
So many of us, myself included, were used to doing things to our dogs (giving them a bath, taking them for a walk, trimming their nails). As the years went on, there has been a shift to doing things with our dogs.
That requires them to opt-in to whatever the interaction is, not just simply tolerate it but to actively. Muzzle training with Puzzle taught me that. Because of her reactivity toward unknown dogs (and related bite history), whenever we go on outings where we might meet off-leash dogs, she wears her muzzle.
That said, I don’t put it on her. She learned to put her nose in on cue (“snoot”) and we used D/CC to give her a happy association with wearing it. Mind you, she certainly didn’t want a cloth muzzle put on her face when a vet tried it years ago!
It takes time, careful intention and specfic skills, tons of patience, and maybe a lot of cheese to change a dog’s mind about such things.
We look forward to learning along with you and Daisy @ruthabigail – thank you for sharing your journey with us!
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Wow! Thank you for the encouragement. With them both just turning one there are things we wanted to really crack down on before they become the big issue!
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Nice “Snoot” work, @jenwalker And you are so right about what we used to do to dogs, vs. doing with them, now. The topic of voluntary opt-in/consent/fear-free/cooperative care is so important.
I’m right there with ya, @ruthabigail in that I’m starting afresh with my new puppy. She’s had her nails “done” by others… and I’m going to be teaching her that she can actually choose to participate and that it pays really really well. I’ll try to grab video too.
I wish I’d grabbed video of the first time I tried to inspect her mouth (pre-purchase) and she went wild, trying to avoid it. Even her “people” couldn’t get her face still enough to have a good look. Two days in my care with active touch-treat games, she not only was easily opening her mouth, but had a nice chin-rest to boot. Now I can open her mouth to easily remove an item at any time. And I always JACKPOT when that happens.
It’s so important to pay attention to how our dogs FEEL about how we interact with them. We can head of a ton of unwanted escalation of behavior if we pay attention to those subtle signals and develop a training plan that incorporates their cooperation and high value rewards.
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Oh boy. I have been working on putting my dog on the grooming table and treat. He gets suspicious with this and then put on his harness every morning there. I treat, then a quick brushing and combing and treat. This has been going on for weeks. When he gives me a tongue lick and whale eye I wait until he takes the treat. Sometimes out of my hand. He starts to move to the edge of the table. OK. I find the dremel is too loud and purchased a LUCKY TAIL NAIL grinder. it is super quiet. I have showed it to him, ok, put it on his paw ok, and watched his reaction when he heard the sound. ( would love to send the video) I present it quickly and put it away. My suggestion Leave grinder on the table next to him. I will toss and or place the treat on the table and let him walk toward the treat. Since he walked away , picking it up he moved away quickly with you moving him back toward it. Moving him back to that stressful situation. Waiting is the hardest part. Its a process for sure.
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Waiting is the hardest part.
That’s so true @denny!
Sometimes even finding a place to start can take some doing. It needs to be far enough away from the end goal not to stress the dog you are training but related enough to begin to build a positive association with whatever they are uncomfortable with. In a number of situations, I’ve started just Marking and Reinforcing the dog for looking in the direction of the item or place we’re working toward.
With your dog and the grooming table – have you tried doing fun games or just having them enjoy some enrichment like a Licki Mat or other stationary food puzzle on, or even near, the table?
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Lickimats for the win! I’ve also used packed Kongs (with non-food/toy guarders!) and simply smeared peanut butter on any surface, as well. But – I only use these if the dog is not triggered to move away/avoid the stimulus. Word of caution: If you use a food “distraction” and the dog is over threshold with fear at the stimulus (nail grinder, whatever) you can actually instill a “poisoned” response to that food. Just like shampoo predicts bath, peanut butter could predict nail grinding.
Update on my progress with Bliss. Currently, I’ve had 5 or 6 short sessions working on pairing the noise of the dremel (at a distance that does not cause a fear response) and teaching her that she can start and stop my progression. If she lies down, we do the next thing. If she moves away, I stop. I’ve fed her for the appearance of the Dremel, for moving it closer (while off) and for touching her paw while holding the Dremel.
I toss food far away every 5th to 8th reward so that she gets a break and can decide whether or not to come back in and play my silly game.
If she stays away, I turn to my other dog, Joy, who is more than happy to have a pedicure, and dremel a bit of her nails and feed her treats and let Bliss watch. Bliss is super jealous and will come running in and FLOP herself down by me at which point I feed her for returning and ask her if she’d like to see my Dremel. ???? In this way, we’ve progressed pretty quickly.
I also discovered that her front feet are MUCH MORE sensitive than her back feet. So, when I do trim that first nail, it will be on a back foot as that will be easier. I think we’ll get there in a day or so.
Enjoy the journey! (And your dog should, too!)
How’s it progressing for you, @ruthabigail
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Great tip on using a different quieter tool, @denny – that’s a really smart move and can make all the difference for some sound sensitive dogs. Thanks for sharing.
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