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New Trainer questions — (1) dog who is afraid to walk down basement steps
Hi There! Relatively new trainer here with a couple questions.
1. I have a dog that has suddenly become fearful of walking down the basement steps. Any suggestions on how to help?
2. I have a very “talkative” dog in my group class, and the owner asked how to make her stop.
3. I worked with a dog who was air snapping and growling with no warning (other than tensing but with no time to react). I have put management strategies into place, but wondered if there is more that I could have done.
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34 Replies
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Hi @tammy , you’ve got some interesting cases mentioned in your post. It might be easier if you would break them out to separate posts, and would also be super-helpful to have some more information about each situation, the individual dog’s details, and what you’ve been trying thus far.
If we start with the dog who is frightened of the stairs, did a stumble occur, or did the dog experience something loud and scary falling down the stairs, or a loud or scary sound emanate from the basement?
Are the stairs open-backed, and are they smooth or do they have non-slip treads? Is there an outdoor entrance from the basement so training can begin from the base of the stairs first? And finally, how big is the dog?
If it’s a small-ish dog and it’s safe for the pet parent to do so, s/he could carry the dog all the way down the steps at first, minus just one step. Then the dog only has to walk down one single step to succeed and earn fabulous treats. Gradually, the dog is placed on the 2nd step, then the 3rd, and so on, until s/he can do them all with confidence.
If the dog can be walked into the basement from an outer entrance, then you can work on one step up for a treat, then back down for another treat, increasing steps up and down, gradually, when the dog is ready for more challenge.
I had a client whose dog was terrified of going DOWN their steps. First, I made sure the pet parent added non-slip treats. Because he was of a size that I could carry him safely down, we did the exercise mentioned above. Solved the issue in one session. The video below begins a few minutes into our first session.
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The lab mix who was afraid to go downstairs is not afraid to go up them as well. No known injury or scary thing happened on the steps and he used to go up and down. Mom has been gone a lot more lately, but otherwise there were no major changes. I tried to lure him up the stairs with a treat, but he would not put more than one foot briefly on the bottom step. He will occasionally come down the steps on a leash if he doesn’t stop at the top step. Any suggestions?
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@tammy – Earlier you’d said that this pup “suddenly” stopped being willing to go downstairs. I want to ask some questions about this to get a better picture in my mind of what may be happening. How old is this dog? How large is s/he?
If the behavior change is “sudden”, something is different. If you can rule out changes for the dog itself (health, vision, structure, etc.) and the people are gentle (e.g., have not accidentally frightened the dog or created a bad experience downstairs) then I’d start looking at the house. I’ve seen dogs act strangely when there’s a new pest (termites), a new scent (gas leak), or a new feel (electrical issue).
If the dog willingly descends stairs elsewhere, there’s got to be a reason for this. I encourage you to keep asking questions and put on your detective hat. It will be a lot easier to come up with solutions when you know the reason for the behavior. It may not even be a “training” issue.
Let us know what you find out!
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He is a 6 month old black labrador retriever. The steps are open back which I believe is some of his concern. They have carpet on the steps so there is no slipping off. The owner has been away from home a lot more since this started (about a month ago for going downstairs and last week for going upstairs) due to caring for a sick relative. Before I got there, they had tried coaxing or dragging the dog up and down the stairs. When they get him out of the kennel and take him right to the stairs to go outside, he will usually go down on the leash with no problem, but when he has time to think, he is fearful.
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Ah! The fact he’s an adolescent and has had some negative experiences in that space is plenty to explain this behavior. Poor pup. Not only does he not know where his back feet are, he’s a teen-ager with all the inherent insecurities. He doesn’t know how to move his body; he is changing shape daily!
Unless he MUST go downstairs anytime soon, (is there another way outside?) I’d be inclined to work on his confidence and hind-end awareness away from the stairs. Have him step through cavaletti poles (pvc or broomsticks work), or use a big stepladder laid on the ground, or the like. You can also use foot targeting, working primarily on rear feet. I would work on a hand target, and teach him to follow it through a mini obstacle course to build his confidence. And when all of those things are fluent, I’d head back to the stairs, using the hand target to get one step, then release him to turn and head back up, then two steps, release and return, then build from there.
If he MUST go downstairs, for example because that’s where the only outdoor access is, then I’d pick someone strong to carry him (gently, carefully!) partway down. Put him on the second to last step – feed high value food reward there, and then for stepping down. Then have him (leashed) walk up 2 steps, turn and walk back down. (Only feed for the turn and the down, not the up.) Since he’s walking up okay, the only new skills are the turn and the walk down. The biggest mistakes people make on this is 1 – forcing it and 2 – asking for too much too soon. Baby steps, literally, for the win.
What do you think of these ideas @tammy ?
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Thank you for the suggestions. I thought the adolescent age might be part of it. I’ll give this a try.
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Just a suggestion, you could try ocher stairs with only 3 steps ( front house steps) & practice with them or use a stepping stool to practice going up a down from the stepping stool. Use steps outside house. Find a small set of stairs in the neighborhood to practice. We I was helping to train Service dogs a few did not like the escalators & we got in the elevator & they did better going down the steps. Good luck keep us updated. Sometimes it can be the texture they are walking on?
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Thank you for the video on the steps. I will try that. He is a lab. They don’t know of anything that happened that scared him, but mom had to be away from home a bit more when it started. The steps are open but there are rug runners on the steps so no slipping.
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I have a very “talkative” dog in my group class, and the owner asked how to make her stop. It seems like demand talking, whining, barking because it happens in class after she has been asked to sit for a length of time. She’ll hold the sit, but starts being noisy. I have tried breaking off the sit and only rewarding quiet sits. She can do quiet sits for up to 30 seconds and then starts again.
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Is the dog being asked to do a formal sit-stay, and is able to hold this for 30 seconds while remaining quiet? Or is the dog just supposed to be relaxing in between exercises and that’s when the barking begins after 30 sec?
If you do a search for demand barking here on DD you’ll find other posts with helpful info on that topic. ????
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Both. She doesn’t seem to like downtime. She is good if she is constantly working, but whines and barks when I am explaining things and her owner is listening to me or when asked to hold a position like sit or down.
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Perhaps you can suggest she bring a couple of stuffed Kongs and/or a long-lasting chew so the dog has something else to do during down time. A class environment can be a lot for some dogs to handle — so much going on around them, but not much freedom to do what they’d like.
Exercising the dog before the class may help a bit too.
Using a visual barrier to reduce stimulation may help.
Quietly and regularly rewarding the dog when she is calm/settled is really important. Clearly, 3 minutes for a STAY is too long a stretch for her just now, so the task needs to be broken down into smaller steps to help the dog succeed and to avoid frustration AND to avoid the continued rehearsal of the barking.
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She does the same thing at home and has since she got her three years ago. It seems like demand barking/whining. The owner tends to talk back to her which I think is reinforcing her.
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For the barky dog in class, using barriers that block the dog from seeing the other dogs can be helpful too. Ex-pen panels with blankets over them are easy to move around for this purpose. The dog can be allowed to see the other dogs for short periods, rewarded for being quiet, then moved back to the decompression space with a mat and a high value chew to relax before working on it again. For some dogs, they simply are too aroused by the class environment and you can ask the client to meet with you 1-1 for private work.
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She seems to bark mostly at her owner. It’s more of a whine than a bark usually
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Ah – Is she whining to get the owner’s attention? (That would look like the dog making eye contact while she’s whining.) Do you think it’s related to anxiety/”is it time to go home yet”, frustration/”let’s do something” or something else?
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I think it is boredom and frustration. She’s fine while we are working but whines to her owner between activities
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There’s a lot more to “unpack” here, like asking the owner how the dog is at home. Does she see these same behaviors? If not, then there could well be an underlying anxiety issue. It may be that this dog just isn’t able to relax enough in a class environment, If you have tried giving a high value chew, working on settling exercises outside of class, then bringing it into class and mat training, with no success, then it may be that working privately is a better fit for this team. You didn’t mention any details about the dog or how long they’ve been together… sometimes these details like breed, age, activities, socialization experiences, length of the relationship and what else they do together can help parse out what may be beneficial for them… but again, that’s stuff more appropriate for a 1-1 conversation, not a group class. If you are seeing progress, that’s one thing. If the dog is disturbing other class members, well then it’s up to you to decide how much is okay. Does that help?
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I worked with a dog who was air snapping and growling with no warning (other than tensing but with no time to react). I have put management strategies into place, but wondered if there is more that I could have done. This is a cane corso so they are worried that she may bite. She has not at this point, but she does scare people when she air snaps at them. She tends to do it if they are sitting at the table and someone moves their feet (even slightly). She did it to me when I raised a toe of my shoe 1/2″ without moving anything else. She also snapped at me when I pointed to a treat that she had missed, after we had been playing “find it” for 10 minutes. I have had them let her approach for attention since she has snapped when approached. I honestly don’t know what to do about it.
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@tammy I agree with @virginiad I have worked with pups in my daycare that were scared of going downstairs and sometimes up the stairs. I started with the bottom step and really worked up and down that one step, eventually maybe next day adding the next step up learning to go up and down just those two steps. The thing that alarms me in your post is that it said suddenly- was the dog having no problems before? Is it poorly lighted? A scare like @virginiad said or even some pain in hips or paws or stepping on something pokey last time they went down?
The dog reacting- I think more questions are needed. What is the environment this happens? What is the context? This is a breed that is for guarding. What are their parents like? How old is the dog? Did they bite someone before? What is the body language before you were at the table? Do they have stanger danger to begin with? I would keep digging.
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It’s a 3-year-old female. The parents have used shock collars but are no longer using them. They use a flat collar in the house. She doesn’t behave this way in the yard, only the house. The triggers are moving your feet, touching her when she hasn’t approached you, getting ice out of the refrigerator, pointing near her (sometimes). She doesn’t react this way to her parents but does to their adult children who also live in the home. Her only warning is a very brief tensing (<1sec. usually).
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@tammy , I wonder if you’ve considered referring this Cane Corso case out to an experienced behavior consultant — it sounds like a LOT for a newer trainer to handle, and is a bit risky for people to remotely weigh in with advice without having an extremely thorough behavioral background, especially with this breed and the sheer size of the dog.
You may even be fortunate to find someone experienced in your area who would be willing to let you shadow them, which would be such an excellent learning experience.-
I discussed management strategies with them to keep everyone safe (don’t approach, let her approach you; putting her in another room when the grandkids visit). I am no longer seeing them, but I was hesitant to make a referral because where we live there are no other R+ trainers. They were using a shock collar on her before I started with them, and she was having a lot more behaviors that we were able to stop (like jumping and then ducking and screaming). I did refer to the vet for a health check and med eval. I wish I had a more experienced trainer around here that I could shadow on these cases.
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@tammy , there are some experienced trainers who specialize in aggression who are actually able to assist remotely and offer services in that format regularly. You might look into Mike Shikashio’s network to see if someone can help.
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Thank you. I’ll try that.
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Hi @tammy – I’m a bit late to the party but just wanted to jump in and encourage you. It’s sometimes hard to reach out for support, and you brought 3 cases at once! Well done. You’ve gotten some great advice already. In the situations where you feel out of your league, it’s always okay to refer to another trainer, and in some cases, it can really help you also learn. Check out the IAABC consultants list as well as the ASVAB – American Society for Veterinary Animal Behavior – working with a veterinary behaviorist on aggression cases has taught me a lot!
All of us are learning and it’s always okay to say, “hey I need a few ideas” – that’s why DD exists. So, thanks again for being vulnerable. Let us know how things go with these cases!
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I like to use “treat/retreat” when dogs are nervous about stairs (and lots of other things). I
<ul type=”disc”>
<ul type=”circle”>- Treat
Retreat” refers to increasing and lessening pressure when being
introduced to novel things. The goal is not to get her to go up the stairs, but to give her choice about coming
closer, and to make positive associations with the stairs.<ul type=”square”>
- toss a
treat away from the stairs and past the dog- toss a treat near the bottom step, after she eats it, toss one away from the step
- If she was confident with the last step, place a treat at the edge of the bottom step, after she eats it toss a treat away from the steps
- Continue only adding difficulty when she is totally confident with the preceding step.
- I always find that taking breaks leads to faster gains. I usually take at least a few days for stairs.
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Thank you. I’ll give this a try
- Treat
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Barking/whining in class can be so frustrating for people and the dog. I have one in a class at the moment too. After reading the thread, I just emailed the owner and told her to bring a Kong to class next time. It’s an obvious solution I didn’t think of.????
That being said, the dog is probably frustrated. I find it’s usually an active dog who’s bored. Again, the Kong can be a solution. Or, keep the dog busy with hand targets, find it, and other skills.
Alternatively, I often have folks give their dogs a calm massage in down times. I talk about a quiet voice, slow movements, favorite scratch spots, etc. This helps dogs who have a hard time self calming.
Or, some dogs vocalize when they’re confused. Then the owner needs to find a clear communication for the given skill.
Or, I ask the student to come to a few private lessons and try the class again. It’s really hard to kick someone out of class, but we have to think of the other teams.
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I do think it is boredom. I’m going to try the Kong.
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@tammy , just be aware the stuffed kong may be a valued resource to that dog or even to others in the class who may pass close enough to get a whiff. It’s important to keep an eye out for any resource guarding and to pick up the kong and put it away when the dog is engaged in other activities.
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Definitely
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Love the massage idea, @Cyn . Do you usually encourage the pet parent to practice this a lot at home, too, so the dog is more able to ‘follow’ the signals to a calmer state before being in more exciting environments?
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No I don’t do that, but it sounds like a good idea. You can tell the difference with people who do it at home anyway and those for who it’s a new exercise.
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