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Oakley and Roxy
At my work there are these two dogs that always are together during play sessions. The Brittany is Oakley, a 4 month old puppy, and the lab mix is Roxy a 8 year old dog. As I’m watching their play, I’m wondering how much of it is safe play? It all seems harmless but the vocalizing always throws me off! She I have intervened at some point? Hopefully the video goes through. ????????
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20 Replies
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I do see a few moments of lip licks and head turns during the play from both dogs, but they don’t make sense in the context.
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OOooooohh, @ruthabigailparadisepaws what a fun video! There’s a lot to unpack here.
A few key things to observe, besides the vocalizations (which are important).
What do you see that looks like escalation of any signals on Roxy’s part?
How is this interaction being interpreted by the other dogs (Hint: watch the doodle!)
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So the Doodle (Noodle) honestly always like to push herself into other dogs play, so I’m not sure if she really was trying to intervene.
As for Roxy’s signals, I did see her stand up and wall away and lean away when Oakley started to get a little too much.
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Hi, @ruthabigailparadisepaws! Thank you for sharing. I was also kind of puzzled at first. A few things I noticed after many re-watches and @programdev‘s points. Of course this is without knowing any of their history. Happy to hear what others think, I certainly could be missing something. Please correct me!
-Roxy: Wide eyes and ears back for much of this interaction. Saw some facial tension also at times. Tongue flicks/lip licks when they pause the jar-sparring. There are a couple moments where Roxy subtly shifts her body away from Oakley to create space. There’s a point where Oakley pushes her legs into Roxy and then Roxy gets up, moves away, and keeps turning to face Oakley. To me, Roxy’s starts vocalizing later in this interaction to give a more obvious signal that she is not comfortable.
-Oakley: Wiggly body movements, pawing, jaw sparring. Mostly on her side and back – I would say a nice way to try to encourage play. Also tongue flicks when they pause. Not sure exactly what to make of her vocalizations. She seems very energetic and is a puppy, so I would guess excitement? I noticed Oakley was always the one to initiate more jaw-sparring after they pause, and not Roxy. I think Oakley is just a bit too forward or excited for Roxy’s taste, and still learning how to read Roxy’s signals.
-The doodle: Seems to me like they intervene to separate them when it gets a little more contentious. Love this! Helping teach the pup to mind her play manners!
-My best attempt at a summary: Oakley very much wants to play, but could do better reading Roxy’s signals. She’s a puppy and Roxy is 8! I would guess Roxy just wanted a calmer interaction, and Oakley is still practicing/learning her social skills.
-Curious what others think of Roxy’s jaw sparring. Does she want to play this game, just more calmly? Or is she just doing it to keep Oakley at bay?
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To be honest, Roxy doesn’t really play with any other dogs, so her interaction with Oakley seemed very good (often if another dog tries to approach/play with her, she shows her teeth).
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Thanks for this context!
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Hey, Ruth.. yes, thnks for putting in your contextualizing- is that even a word?- comment on this interaction. I worke in a gre t dog day care for about a year & I felt like the dogs whodidn’t really want to connect with others, often the 5 yrs+ adult doggos who just would happily watch the action from their claimed area of the room or Kuranda bed (“sweeping generalization” alert!) usually responded or acted positively with a puppy IF THEY (the pupster) were at LEaST CLOSE to being polite with the older dog. Maybe this was Roxy’s situ..& she was interested enough to be ‘trying her luck’ with the ‘new kid’! ( How’s THT for totally unapologetic (not really) anthropomorphism!) I agree that their p\ly session while lying down seemed fairly loose & with space enough between bouts for either one to retreat if need be.
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What a great video of a youngin’ hanging with an old pro. (And a party crasher, to boot – there’s always one, isn’t there? ????) And thank you for providing the background info on their ages @ruthabigailparadisepaws – that is a cool aspect of this.
Awesome job with your observations and breakdown @warren
Here’s some more quick questions to add to the mix – jump in with your thoughts on this y’all!- When they stop playing and you see the tongue flicks from Roxy – do you think it’s due to their interaction or something else?
- Is the contact between the two dogs intense with one pressuring the other’s space, grabbing hard, or the like? Or is it “light and airy” between Roxy and Oakley?
- Finally, if either of the two dogs were unhappy with the interaction, do you see any signs of that? Could either one get up and move away? Are they?
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So also to give some more information: Roxy is one of those dogs who really is an observer. She doesn’t really ever into act with the other dogs. She just sits and watches. She is very laid back, but can often be a stickler with personal space.
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Seems sufficiently airy to me. And there is plenty of space for either to get up and move away, which no one does until Roxy towards the end. @david Your points and @ruthabigailparadisepaws extra context are leading me to reconsider – now I wonder if Roxy’s vocalizations (both while lying down and while standing) are actually in response to the Doodle intruding on their nice, friendly game. Still not quite sure what to make of the tongue flicks and pauses.
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I agree and am equally confused.
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Early on, when the dogs are lying down, it’s nice they are taking breaks. I think when they stand up and shortly thereafter, is where I would have intervened. What changes, here? (Hint: look at body tension and alignment.) And the puppy barking at her at :42… is that playful?
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@ruthabigail @warren I hear a loud sound that comes from something off camera at 7 seconds. That’s what I think caused them to pause there!
Regarding the vocalizations – it is fairly common for some dogs to vocalize during activities that excite them, like play. That can appear to me to be more of an “emotional expression” rather than a communication signal – especially when it repeats over and over throughout the interaction. What do you guys think?-
That does sound the most plausible! I know, Oakley is normally very vocal.
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Overall I see pretty good play and I was really not to concerned with the vocalizations or the licking of lips. I didn’t see that as a stress related issue. I think toward the end I would of intervened just to give them a break and give them time to chill(probably not a great dog term but it the only word that comes to mind). I have found that giving multiple breaks during play is very important to avoid problems.
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Wow- like Catherine said there’s a LOT here to observe & ‘unpack’! Which I’ll do soon BUT I just had to say this: this Roxy looks like a MIRROR IMaGE of my former – as in passed away 5 yrs. ago – heart dog, Josie, when she was younger! (Though J wouldn’t EVER HaVE played that readily with another dog sadly: she probably was – this is my best guess at her history, don’t know for sure – was separated from her puppy clan too early to learn “og-speak” & just could never read other dogs’ signals- so, yeah, very reactive) Just thought I’d mention. I’ll try to find a pic to share with y’all.
(Here we are in 2009. O.K, so she was a TAD more ‘saftig’ than Roxie at same age! Not for lack of exercise, though, trust me! ????)
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Awww! You’re right! They look very much alike!
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Love this share – they are totally kindred spirits.
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Now that we’ve talked this out a bit, I’m going to go out on a limb here just for fun and say that I think Roxy likes Oakley quite a bit. At least on this day, in this video. Ruth – if you see them interact again over time, tell us more, I’m curious!
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I will try to catch them in action again!
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