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Resource Guarding ?
Hi guys!
This is Buddy a 15 month old Shepherd. He spent the beginning of his life 24/7 in crate before he was rescued. He broke both his front legs at some point during his puppy hood and ended up gaining a ton of weight during the recovery process. Behavioral issues include reactivity towards dogs. Very mouthy toward people when seeking attention; isn’t biting per say but the mouthiness is rough. I guess the other day he got into a scuffle with two other GSD who according to the owner said he was acting like he wanted to play. No one was seriously injured thankfully! He is hard to walk on a leash and is very questionable around other passing dogs and people. He is also engaging in coprophagy.
He knows basic obedience but is not very nice taking treats. Oh and he loves this squeeky ball as his owner states “like a pacifier.”
I should note this is not a client but a friend of the family who reached out because she is desperate for some advice. I am trying to convince her to seek a veterinary behaviorist. I don’t live near her and he seems like he has some deep stuff to work through.
What I am wondering what is happening with this dog in the video. I am really not a fan of his body language as I think its screaming resource guarding, the freezing, whale eye, tension in the body, ect. But the excessive panting? Just curious what other people who know dogs thoughts were on his behavior.
Thank you!!!
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16 Replies
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Hi!
Thanks for sharing this video and your concern.
I have several questions.
Was he playing prior to this, that could account for the panting? It does seem to start when the woman starts talking and getting close but not sure if it was happening before, too.
Has he ever bit another dog or person on the proximity of food, toys or space?
Has he acted this way before, any other times?
I am concerned how his back legs are splayed. Does he have hip issues?
I see him blinking with an open mouth( likely the ball is on it). I am not seeing much for guarding ( my opinion).
There is a subtle shift in his head-I think he is more listening to the woman’s voice.
I would suggest a vet work up for pain. ( the vet Behaviorist is a great idea, too!)
He appears to be more anxious with the proximity of the woman approaching in my opinion.
Curious as to what others are seeing.
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@mtnwolfpup , what a rough start for this dog!
It would be good to know what he was doing prior to this video, like was he running around a lot with this toys to account for the panting…? The panting itself, though, does seem very rapid and shallow. Not sure if the toy in his mouth is helping to create that. In this clip, resource guarding isn’t really jumping out at me.
Based on the other info you shared, seeing a VB sounds like a really good idea.
Please keep us posted.
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Hi Sofia, @mtnwolfpup
You’ve gotten great replies so far – thanks, @jenz and @virginiad !
I do see the freezing you mentioned, as well as the unwillingness to let the ball go. These could be precursors to guarding. I’m also hearing the hesitancy in the (owner?)’s voice. Has she been bitten, taking things from him? I like how she offers the second ball. She may get good results with a compelling food drop – a handful of chicken near him, then again a bit further away, then a third time to busy him as she picks the ball up. Distance!! is important. Dogs are lightening fast.
The fact that he was in a fight but there were no injuries is good – it shows some decent bite inhibition! I wouldn’t trust that forever though. Dogs can and do escalate bite pressure.
Like the others, I’m wondering what was happening prior to the video and suspect he had been exercising in some way to create the panting? If not, then pain and stress are indicated.
Pain was my very first thought, as I read the history. Especially if this is newer or escalating behavior. Any behavior change in an adult dog requires a vet check, first.
I am also worried about the back legs being all akimbo. That’s not a normal resting position. This video or other photos of him resting like that should be shown to the veterinarian. It may be he learned to lie like this due to being crated so much as a pup, but it would be good to rule out discomfort preventing him from lying in a more natural state.
If the owner is unwilling or unable to get a VB, a trip to their regular vet is all the more important.
Please let us know what you think of all these ideas!
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Oh wow @jenz @virginiad @catherine! You guys are awesome ????
Thank you so much to for taking the time to respond. To answer the popular question: No. According to his owner he just sat down and started chewing on his ball with no prior physical exercise before which is why she videoed the fast breathing. I guess he only was doing it when she approached.
I agree that the pain is causing some of his behavior issues. I will have to ask her about his back leg/ hips. Poor thing ????
He has seen a vet, which is how they found out about the broken front legs. Not sure if he has been back yet.
Also I went back through and watched the video
more and I totally see where it seems more like a stress response rather then resource gurding. But the freezing and weird panting response was throwing me off which is why he seemed to be resource guarding.
I need to watch more videos????
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@mtnwolfpup I watched it again a couple times. And yeah, I can now see that the panting starts when she begins speaking to him.
I think the panting is a stress response…. I wonder what their earlier interactions have been like, if/ when she’s removed an object from him? Or anyone else.
Definitely need to rule out pain – although his rise to his feet and backward motion suggest some backend strength and coordination.
How long does he remain so fixed on the ball? Is he always that intense? Is he this way with anything else or anyone else? What happens if the ball is put away? Does he pick something else up and treat it similarly, or does he stare at wherever it got put?
So many questions.
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@mtnwolfpup
This is how we all learn! It is always great to see how others see things and see body language! For me, it is hardest when it is my own dogs! I feel blinded and, always second guess myself! I always welcome others thoughts!
Yes, watching more videos will allow you to see body language differently and, in different context in order to “see” differences. I appreciate these types of videos to continue to learn myself!
Please keep us posted with updates! Knowing what the vet or vet behaviorist adds to this will continue to help us all!
Thanks again for sharing!
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UPDATE! @jenz @virginiad @catherine as promised and since you have been so helpful, I wanted to give a quick update on Buddy.
His owner sent me this video and explained he has been jumping up on her and biting her when she is sitting. She has been trying to be a “wall” and yells no to him. She said she is not sure why he is being a teenage defiant.
To me I see the whale eye, tension in brow and muzzle, ears forward alert and listening to her. Then as she yells I see he is turning his face away ( calming singals) when she keeps waving her finger and yelling and getting closer then he starts vocalizing to say hey back off I am uncomfortable with this.
I told his owner that yelling is not helping the situation and it is infact making him more uncomfortable. He is not corralating the jumping naughtiness with the yelling. I suggested she try to not say anything to him and turn her head when he starts barking and if he persists try yawning and averting her gaze. Just to see what he does. Also suggested body blocking instead of becoming a wall when he jumps.
Okay doggie body language wizards ???????? what do you think? WARNING!!!! The humans behavior is kinda hard to listen to and is a bit irritating
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@mtnwolfpup
I agree with your observations and interpretations for the body language in this video. I agree with the advice you are giving your friend in the context of this video as well. Nice job! These kinds of cases are always difficult, when there’s such a disconnect between the human and the dog.
I just re-read all of the information you previously gave… and I’ve got some serious concerns for this relationship. Is there any way to get them in touch with a qualified local behavior consultant who can work with them in their home? They need someone with a lot of patience who can help skill-build and teach body language as it is happening. This relationship needs to reduce conflict and create trust.
You might be able to find someone qualified by doing a search on the CCPDT or IAABC sites.
Otherwise, you might suggest meeting with her once a week via video chat to help her in real time?
I would start with a meeting without the dog present, and have a discussion about what makes a dog different from humans. Then gently begin teaching how to get buy in from the dog, how to use a food lure and classical conditioning to get desired behaviors. But these things must be given in very small doses, with frequent patient coaching. If that’s not something you can offer, or if she declines getting outside help, then helping her understand that putting this dog with someone who has the time and money to help him is his best hope, before he escalates to serious biting, which he will do if nothing changes. And then his chances of rehoming or survival are grim.
I know all that is heavy, when you just asked for a body language read… but this is an urgent and critical situation, in my opinion. Please let me know what you think!
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Oh, one more thing… there’s got to be more to the story about the dog jumping up and biting her while she is sitting…. whatever is happening right before he does that (I’mma guess scolding/yelling or some other antagonistic behavior on the part of the human) has to STOP. To reduce conflict, the whole pattern needs to change… and this is going to require a deeper look with a behavior consultant… but meanwhile, just STOP whatever it is, and see if you can guide them to luring the dog to different areas of the house behind a gate with food, and giving him space and enrichment in those other areas.
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@catherine Thank you for taking a look! I totally agree she needs to see a behavior consultant, which I have suggested SO many times. I never thought of looking through a directory to find somone.
Of course she is just bumming free info off me because she is close with my family ???? I am really glad you said rehoming might be better because pretty much this entire time I have been talking with her about his “attitude” I kept thinking it is just not the right dog for them. I thought I was being calouse. I wish she were closer so I could work with him but I never thought of maybe doing a zoom call and perhaps over time I could get her to see somone in her town.
I really appreciate your insight. I feel so bad for this dog. Totally misunderstood and not being given what he needs????
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@mtnwolfpup Some people really enjoy having “drama” with their dogs, and all the attention/empathy that comes their way… but if she cares at all about this dog, she needs to understand that he is not playing. He is not joking. He is not sassing. He is threatening. And if he feels it is necessary to escalate, it could bring his death. She is the only one who can stop the train at this point. What does she want to do with that information?
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Totally agree! I think she loves him a lot and wants to work with him. After the advice you gave I managed to have a very serious chat with her and found a behavior consultant from her area. She is going to reach out to them today!! She was very thankful for the honesty and 100% agreed.
Thank you again for your advice and support with this. I am such a fledgling to the training world so having more insight gave me the push I needed to chat with her more seriously.
Stay tuned! I hope for some progress as she meets with the trainer!!
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YAY!! @mtnwolfpup – thanks so much for letting me know! I got all goose-bumpy, reading your update! WOOHOO for the power of community.
Please do keep us posted! Thanks again!
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Thanks for this update.
In this short clip, I think I see “typical” Shepherd behavior to some extent, such as vocalization and “talking back” (at least the Shepherds I have seen). The jumping up can be a behavior that has been reinforced, even inadvertently. It can also be due to adolescence type behaviors and lack of impulse control. Shepherds can be mouthy dogs in my opinion, but, what is driving the behavior in this case?
If she is not willing to listen to your training advice 100%, this situation can spiral downward real fast.
I agree that if this person has never owned this breed/ breed mix or, is not dog savvy, them re-homing may be the best option as Catherine mentions.
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That is a great point too. I don’t know GSD to well and wasnt aware that they were known to be mouthy. With no structure, socilization and his genes poor guy has a lot of work ahead of him.
I hope she meets with the behavior consultant and is able to start to change things. Otherwise I think he might be happier in another home.
Thanks again for responding!!
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Interesting video. Thanks for sharing. In the first video I see a weird posture of the back leg which was concerning. But I feel he quickly moved out if it as if he was ready to pounce. If you know how a dog does a down, lies on his side on his hip and or postures the back leg underneath to make a quick get away. Along with his ears up, whale eye and his reaction to the voice. He was in tuned to her being around and reacting. I would not feel comfortable going up to him and or trying to take the ball away. from him. Plus he got up and backed away from her as if saying this is MINE .He appeared unpredictable and really am not surprised of his biting her. So big deal it didn;t break the skin. BUT I strongly disagree of yelling at him and telling him he is a BAD BOY. This goes against my grain. There has developed a lack of trust between them, and he is reacting to it. Where is the positive reinforcement, redirection. I believe dogs are reacting to the tone of voice, the finger shaking and he is talking to her… growling, head down and not happy. She is making the situation worse. Unfortunately, I feel she believes he is a bad dog. (even though I agree with this regarding his behavior. ) NEVER CALL A DOG BAD. Unless you say it in a happy voice and redirect. I believe dogs react to the intention and tone of voice. It’s like don’t let them know how mad you really are ! as she may be making him more aggressive unintentionally. ).
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