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Sheltie Chasing Cars – Part 4 | Real Challenges | David Video Update
Next up in our Training Plans Workshop, it’s time to talk about Troubleshooting the Sheltie Chasing Cars case. We’ve all experienced the realities of what happens in real life situations when you’re working on changing a dog’s behavior. It’s not easy! This is the part where we get to talk about why it can be challenging to hit all your goals with behavior cases and what we can do to maximize progress. Share your stories and your solutions!
What are the LIKELY CHALLENGES and SETBACKS we may need to address with car chasing and leash reactivity cases? Share your solution ideas and real stories, too. We want to hear about both troubleshooting and success stories!
Here’s is a summary of the real case details again:
“A sheltie is exhibiting chasing behavior, especially cars. I know chasing is hard wired in herding breeds. This is a 4 month old Sheltie who has lots of energy. The owner got him from a breeder in WVA and had him for about 2 month now. Owner has had Shelties before but not nearly as high energy as this one. They are concerned because he already escaped when they opened the door and started chasing after cars. When they walk him, he barks and wants to chase after everything that moves.”What are the LIKELY CHALLENGES and SETBACKS we may need to address with car chasing and leash reactivity? Share your solution ideas and real stories, too. We want to hear about both troubleshooting and success stories!
All of the great ideas you’ve posted so far are being edited into our Training Plan and everyone who shares will be listed as a contributor on the finished write up. This has been an awesome community project so far. ????
@Abbie @bmacwatt @Chris @denny @CountryGirl @Wanze @HollyJMartinez @ilana @Voodoo @jenwalker @Jenz @Jenny @Jeri @JoyBaker1611 @KathyS @KTinaN @MaddiAlflen @BeagleMania @PamM @RADS @Vincent @VinnyMickey @Bernerlabreclectus @PawsUp @KTinaN @Lis @Lis @WalksWithAlex @Anna @ZaneB @stomper16 @Gin @Marcybel @Melissa @Carolyn @Brigid @HHPS @Levi @Achtung @PawstoConsider @Laurie @Reddog @amywurst @DoggoneSpecial @Pkoh
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18 Replies
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I am going to share my own, real world experience, expectations and outcome with my 12 year old (but young) car chasing thug, Titan.
A brief background and known info to set the stage for my scenario; adopted at 9 years old from euthanasia list (from a shelter I volunteer at), found as emaciated stray (from NC) but had microchip/vet records first 5 years of his life, car chasing noted in his file, a strong puller, has very clear predatory body language with a strong predatory sequence, motivated by outside environment over food (if inside, food wins!), 72 LBS, DNA test revealed APBT, Am Staff terrier and Chow!
Some of my challenges were; he was 9 years old already with a behavior that was likely reinforced a long time, likely an innate behavior, the environment is a reinforcer for him, (scents, slightest movements), little to no food motivation once outside and would “ignore me”, not toy motivated at all for having a prey drive, very confident and independent personality, to name a few.
It was hard to find a motivator once outside. He listens seemingly perfectly in the house but once that door opened, he literally focused on the outside, pulled as hard as he could, nose to the ground. When he heard a car or truck (the bigger the vehicle, the bigger the reaction), he would orient, stare, assume the prey bow position and wait for its approach and launch! A noted setback was that once the first chase occurred, he would be amped up anticipating the next and the opportunity to learn was diminished. It was a cycle that was hard to break.
I tried many approaches from Premack, engage/disengage, DS/CC, food scatters, putting treat right on his nose/in his mouth to distract. So what worked for me? A little and a lot of all of it in some combination!
Some trouble shooting that was needed was how to use the environment that influenced him. Over a lot of time, I used DS/CC to minimize his reactions outside. I used the environment for food scatters of hot dogs to engage his nose for scent work while walking. I used Premack and engage/disengage to keep moving/sniffing on LLW walks, I put the food right at his nose/mouth to slow feed as a distraction and to keep him moving or turn-to keep him from going over threshold.
My real expectation is; that I may never fully extinguish this behavior, if innate. After all, he is a dog with likely strong predatory genetics. I have accepted Titan for who he is as a dog and his needs. Titan and I have learned to mostly manage them together as a team. Today, almost 3 years after adopting him, together we have reduced the number of reactions and intensity overall and to me, that is his/our success story!
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This is such a good example of the many factors that influence behavior and training work, and the realistic challenges, plateaus and outcomes that dog owners experience. Thank you for sharing this story and this valuable summary, @Jenz
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In helping Titan, it seems you used your whole toolbox of behavior & training techniques and yet also clearly recognized and honored who he is with your expectations of him. Bravo @Jenz!
Learning to “cut your losses” and just go home when a dog is being hit with too many challenges can be a very difficult lesson for dog owners to get. These setbacks will happen. How we help our dogs (and ourselves) through them is an integral part of the journey together (as well as being an important component of our training plan or course).
How did you help him relax, unwind, and detox from these situations? For one of my dogs gnawing on his favorite chew or suckling on his blanket seems very soothing to him but for my other dog doing some well-known (and emotionally positively charged) cues or guided shaping helps her settle. They both tend to take a long nap afterward!
once the first chase occurred, he would be amped up anticipating the next and the opportunity to learn was diminished.
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Hi @jenwalker !
Thanks for your feedback.
In helping him settled once back in the yard (nice weather), he sunbathes! Or, once in a while he will suckle the carpeting on the pallets, as your pups do. If the weather is cold, he comes back in and will get a small sniffari, stuffed kong or we just sit together.
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Seasonal relaxation – I love it!
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@jenwalker
Titan working on his tan last summer (but not after a chasing event).
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Awww – he looks like he is made of sunshine – and most surely relaxing!
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He is very handsome and looks very happy!
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From my own experience with my reactive dog Autumn, I know being committed to the process is very important. These types of behaviors cannot be resolved overnight. Patience and consistency are other important factors on the part of the owner. For Autumn, it was important to be consistent with her training. She also came from a shelter and has been spending her time in the back and not on the adoption floor. We went from lunching, barking, biting my feet and/or leash to walk by my side and to enjoy our hikes and walks. We learned that she could have other dog friends when selected carefully and now even has a brother to romp around with – something I thought would never be possible when we started our journey 6 years ago. She still has her moments, and I can never trust her fully with other dogs, but I know how to help her make better choices and how to manage certain situations.
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@Heidi
” I know being committed to the process is very important. These types of behaviors cannot be resolved overnight. Patience and consistency are other important factors on the part of the owner.” So very true and a great point!!
I am happy to hear about team Autumn’s success! Nice work!!
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I spent several months using counter conditioning on a 2 year border collie and really didn’t see any changes. The dog named JAKE would lunge at cars. I tried many different things but nothing really worked well. I did pattern games, scent games, tug ,etc. one day I was sitting with Jake by owners house and was ready to give up. While I was thinking with dog I was petting him under chin. He really liked that. I began to notice that while petting him , he did not lunge at a car. I felt pretty stupid because I realized what the answer was. It only took 3 months. I incorporated the petting instead of treats and I saw great improvement. I think now as a trainer, I always take a step back to get to know the dog better instead of being so worried about finding a specific technique right away. With all my clients I focus on relationship building and engagement training. Whether the relationship or trust is the issue in this case or not, its worth looking into. I think in any training plan , there should be some type of relationship building exercises I know most of you know this but figured I would share. I also I’m finding that using play works well with many dogs who have a specific trigger that they react too.
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What a great story for so many reasons. Brilliant share, Bruce, thank you! @bmacwatt
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Thank you for being open to unforeseen options for reinforcement @bmacwatt! I found a similar thing with my Border Collie Gusto in that an abrupt and quick change in direction every now and again makes all the difference in his enjoyment of loose leash walking (far more than treats or praise ever did).
I don’t recall who used the phrase “the learner gets to decide what is reinforcing” but it is definitely an important part of the training recipe.
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That is so helpful to read your struggle with Jake! I had some similar experiences with my client’s dogs and even my clients not being consistent with the training when I am not there. Just like you I had to take a deep breath and thing how it could all work. A few times now I have found simple solutions for both pup and clients and even though it may have taken months to get to that solution I was happy that I was still able to provide one for everyone to be happy and satisfied with. Just like you said I think we focus on all the techniques we know and can sometimes forget we have to really get to know our human and pup clients first before we can start using various techniques. ♥️???? Thank you so much for sharing that story!
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18 months ago I surprising became the mom to an 8 year old husky/jindo. Fate had spent a year in the Humane Society before getting adopted and then spent the next 6 months bouncing from home to home until I got a call one morning. Listening to her story over the phone I just said, “meet me in 15 minutes and I’ll take her”. Voila, I’m Fate’s new mommy. It was obviously clear this poor girl had no trust in humans and had yet to find a home that could meet her training and socialization needs. She had no basic obedience, wasn’t house trained and was dangerously reactive to anything and everything. She was a huge bite risk. I couldn’t turn my back on her for the first month we were together. Literally, our walks were timed so we wouldn’t meet or see any other dogs or humans. I started with just management and avoided all training until we could establish a relationship which took about 3 months. Once she finally let me pet her (about 3 months) I began with crate/potty training. (seriously, she was 8 years old and never house trained). By 6 months, she began allowing me to pet her more frequently, and we had the basics down: Sit, Stay, Come, Down. At 12 months, she had learned Check-In, Drop-It, Leave-It, Touch, Bed, and Shake. She had also started tolerating other dogs after formal introductions. Today, she is approaching some (not all) strangers with a good sniff in place of an intimidating bark/lunge/snarl but she is no longer that huge bite risk and our cc/ds training will most likely continue for the rest of her life. Although I realize she’ll never be that happy-go-lucky golden type, she’s learnt to smile more, wag more, and actually ask for pets. Her fear has subsided although still there, she’s also developed the coping mechanisms to tolerate strangers and strange environments. It’s been a long and hard journey but to see her progress has been amazing.
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Thank you for sharing this story, Tonda. Your openness and patience is clearly life changing for Fate. Share a photo or video when you can!
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These stories of real-life experiences and “training the dog in front of you” (to paraphrase Denise Fenzi) are where it’s at. Thank you @jenz @wanze @bmacwatt and @tondabenge – I’ll share excerpts of these in our final document because they highlight that, even though we have a training plan, we must be willing to pivot when the dog needs us to! Same thing with humans – does anyone have tips to help the human learners?
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What helped me as a learner the most was education myself about dog behavior and training. Reading books such as the other end of the leash etc. As a result I wanted to become a dog trainer to not just help dogs but also help people understand their dogs better.
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