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Using Chin Rest during Low Stress Handling, Part 1 of 4
Bond is my 20th dog, and I adopted him at age 2. He’s confident and extremely affectionate with every person he meets. But, he’s the first dog I’ve had that poses a handling problem during vet visits. He becomes very squirmy and frightened ???? even by fairly ordinary handling, so I knew I’d have to work on cooperative care and help him become relaxed about body handling.
I decided to teach Bond to rest his chin on my hand????as a way of letting me know he’s ready for handling. With a larger dog, some people prefer to have the chin resting on their lap while they’re sitting in a chair.
Body handling was introduced in baby steps, gradually working towards what he might experience while at the vet’s office. If his chin leaves my hand, I know he needs a break, and after a short pause, I offer him the option to do the chin-rest again so we can recommence.
If he keeps aborting the chin rest, I’d know I was asking too much of him and would break things down into smaller steps so he can remain relaxed.
How have you approached low-stress handling with your own dog?
Part 2 shows an intro to the chin rest with a visiting dog.
Part 3 where another person handles Bond.
Part 4 a 2nd person handling him, and some issues that popped up.
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30 Replies
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Oh I love this! I absolutely will be incorporating the chin rest preset. Thank you.
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That’s great, @lisad ! I hope you’ll share some video with us if you’re working on this with your own dog(s). ????
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Sorry, I wanted to reply to original post, but my phone isn’t giving me that option!
I do not know how I missed this, when you originally created this series. I’m binge watching it today, @virginiad !
Bond is such a cool dog. I love how he keeps re-engaging with you, after you give your release sound (so awesome, btw! Instead of a cue word).
Question: what method did you use to initially teach the Chin Rest? Was it a shaping or luring thing or a capturing kind of event?
I hope to teach this to a dog soon! Have to decide which client dog to work with.???? Thank you!
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For Bond, I did a combo of shaping and capturing the chin rest. He already knew how to nose-target to my hand, so it’s pretty easy to morph my hand position to make ‘accidental’ touches with his chin happen.
With other dogs, it may be easier to jump-start the chin rest with a food lure, and then just get rid of it as soon as you can.
The “yip!” you hear is his verbal marker. It’s easy to say it at a high pitch and really clipped, which I think helps raise its significance to the dog. Almost as good as a clicker.
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Thank you for explaining! I love the “yip”! I usually use a high-pitched “yes!” But I think the “yip” truly is better in these cooperative care cases. WTG!
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When the one-syllable word you choose for your verbal marker ends in a clipped consonant, you create a crisper marker. The “S” of “yes” is too easily drawn out.
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I’m inspired, Virginia!
I started a chin rest a long time ago with Bliss… and have not kept up on it. She’ll be due for an exam and boosters in a few months and this would be helpful to keep her still for that. (She’s a true wigglebutt!). I’ll be looking forward to your next post for your getting started steps. Thanks for these!
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@catherine , you’ll have to film some of your sessions with Bliss and share!
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I will – anyone want to join me in this challenge!? C’mon – where are all my fearless trainers?
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RIGHT ON! Chin Rest Challenge!
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@catherine @virginiad What better time for Henry and I to dust this off and practice! He did lift his head a couple times, but re-engaged quickly both times. The second time, he put his head back faster than I could react. What a good boy for forgiving my rule break! Looking forward to the rest of the series 🙂
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Thank you for sharing, @wagswithwarren ! That was lovely to watch, and Henry is one handsome dude. He’s the perfect height for a chin rest on your leg, and there’s a real advantage to that position because it leaves you with both hands free for handling, when needed. ????
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I agree, he is handsome! Definitely need two hands to trim his nails, which is many levels of comfort/difficulty above where we are now…
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@wagswithwarren WOW! This is great work! I love how you asked for simple behavior in the beginning, then worked up to harder challenges. So respectful and what a wonderful way to ask him how he’s feeling about it all. Right at the end, after you lift up his lips, I noticed him lick, then you ended the session after that. I’m wondering what you were thinking about that?
I haven’t started this with Bliss yet… can’t wait to!
With nail trimming… did you catch the series that Bliss and I did awhile back?
@virginiad also has a great post on cooperative paw wiping. Do you think you’d do “feet” alone, or would it be better for him to use a stationary object for the chin rest while you move around and do his feet?
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@catherine I actually missed that lip lick in real time. But he did also lift his head (then re-place it), so I knew I had pushed too far. I took his re-engagement as a win on which to end the session. If I had a do-over, I’d probably ask if he wanted to try one more time, then pet his back or butt where he’s least sensitive, and ended on that note.
Just watched your awesome nail trim series, super helpful! I love the point about tossing treats away to give them the choice to re-engage. We have a lot of work to do there, but where better to start than Step 1?.
At what point would you combine that DS/CC protocol with the chin rest, once we get to “touch your paws with the trimmer?” We definitely have some work to do with the trimmer at a distance first and I’m wondering whether the chin rest with trimmer further away would help or just be confusing for him?
For paw wipes, I might try the stationary object! Currently, I just sit on the floor (in a designated spot like many in @virginiad thread commented) and when I bring the rag to each paw, he usually lifts it for me. Then we wipe and treat. He learned this “game” before I taught him the chin rest, so we’ve just stuck with it. But he doesn’t always lift every paw on his own so it may be good to combine these and help build that comfort. Our house rule is that we wipe paws every time we come inside. So I struggle with how to incorporate choice here. I try to make it as quick and painless as possible but there is definitely room for improvement!
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This is all so good, @wagswithwarren – and that’s why we video, is to catch the things we miss in real time. You are doing a great job with him, and I love that you are so willing to give him so many choices. He’s lucky, for sure!
On the paw wiping/choice issue… hmm… what if he could have a choice between turning circles on an absorbant mat, or get his paws wiped? Alternatively, he could just do a “go to place” for a 10m relax time where the paws would naturally dry. It would take some thinking and experimentation to teach him he has the freedom of choice. Maybe other members can jump in with suggestions on this? I confess I just have a great big absorbant mat at my back door and if the dogs are wet, we do sits for cookies. (Cheat!)
On the DS/CC for dremeling – absolutely work from a distance first. I wouldn’t require any behavior at all. Turn the Dremel on for 1-2 seconds; partner feeds at the exact same time. Dremel turns off= food stops. Dremel on = food starts. Let Henry look at the Dremel or anywhere else at first – the key is to be far enough away that he notices the sound but doesn’t have a fear response. After that, you can toggle between distance and duration variables as you work closer. As you’ll see in the series, I add some DS/CC for the vibration and smell as well as the sound.
On the chin rest with another object – I was thinking that could be a nice transition to working with your vet. Sometimes they need to be where you are – so getting you out of the picture, then adding in touch from a different person could help Henry have very cooperative exams or treatment. What do you think?
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Those are great suggestions! I’ll review with the rest of our household, meanwhile working on DS/CC to paw handling.
And roger that on the dremel protocol.
That makes total sense resting on an object and having others do the handling to build up towards a vet scenario. For Henry, I think that’s a win-win training game for when we have guests over! Awesome suggestion.
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Yay! Please do check in and keep us posted on Henry’s progress.
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Such an awesome video share @wagswithwarren
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@catherine @wagswithwarren @virginiad
I agree, Catherine, that paw wipes can be hard and it’s great to give a choice, of possible, that will accomplish the same task. Turning circles on a towel or Sits on an absorbent fluffy mat are great alternatives. I don’t think of them as cheats, but choices for comfort! I used to throw a HUGE old towel on the floor for my big Lab and Berner, when they came in from the mucky, wet yard. I’d say Go to Your Place to Samson and NOT give him a formal Stay. He would Down and then I could wipe him with another towel, if needed. (I don’t have super clean floors by the way, never did care too much. ????)
Gonna watch both video series today of the nail trims with Bliss and the paw wiping, with Virginia and pup. Not crazy busy here today, Happy 4th!
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Have you had any chance to work with Bliss on this, @catherine ? I’d love to see!
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With all the work I did with her nail trim series and since then, I haven’t had any issues with paw wiping… she loves to be touched, in any case, and has only gotten better about it as we have gone along. I do want to work on having other people handle her though… now, only to recruit a helper!
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I’m going to try this with my Berniedoodle. She is a crazy girl at vet!
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Yay! Let us know how it goes, @JCongdon !
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Lights just went off for my girl Madison, she does the chin rest when the other dogs are around our space because she wants 100% of momma’s attention. I notice she relaxes when she does the chin rest as I tell her share the love. I never realized what she was trying to tell me until reading these comments. So I’ll start using it in other areas where I see she’s getting nervous. I’m pretty good at body language and her position with a bark when she’s trying to tell me something. I usually tell my husband she wants to go out or she wants us to remove her bone from crate because she needs to go out we have 8 dogs and she wants to make sure it’s safe while she’s out. He looks at me like how do you do that ???? can’t believe I missed the chin cue. Thank you everyone!!
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So, do you think Madison rests her chin on you as a way of feeling more secure, @lilsam ? I’m looking forward to hearing where else you may incorporate this skill.
Eight dogs — wow! I remember having a group that big many moons ago, but can’t imagine wrangling so many dogs anymore. ????
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I think it’s a combination of things, she’ll come up alone and rest her chin when she wants something. She’s great with all our dogs and definitely tries to get into the #1 spot, I’ve worked with her 3 years and taught her we all share attention, treats or toys, attention etc. She used to try and block the other dogs but with training she’s stopped blocking. She doesn’t do resting chin when all the dogs are around, she’s busy watching me for what’s next a ball toss or a work for a treat sit and stay.
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@lilsam Sounds like you are a genius at managing all those personalities and interactions. Well done! My girls also do chin rests as a solicitation behavior. Usually toward the end of my work day when it has GOT TO BE TIME TO DO SOMETHING FUN WITH DOGS! haha – they know my routines and if I’m working late they persistently pester.
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Thank you and I wish I was a genius and handling personalities hahaha normally everything is great they all play and get along. Long story short, Madison recently had babies but before birth our little old rescue Gizmo has a bad habit of growling under his breath and one afternoon he did this and Madison pinned him down, we were sitting here so we got her off ASAP. However when our 1 1/2 year male came in he smelled him and knew something was wrong someone hurt or tried hurting his buddy. Enzo watched over him a few days, we put gizmo in his crate so Enzo would hopefully stop guarding him. We have (2) 1 year old English cream sweethearts and Enzo has decided they hurt him and goes after them if allowed in our living room (sigh) however they go out back and run and play it’s just the living room that triggers it. I bought a cone muzzle for him and worked with him several days before using it. So now he’s muzzled when in our living room or we close the kiddie gate to hallway and Enzo sleeps outside the living room. I’m hoping with time and muzzling we can rid the trigger because they all got along before Gizmos experience with Madison. Trust me we get our days we’ve just never experienced play outside is good but living room is a triggering point for poor Enzo. Still learning ????????❤️
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WOW! That’s a lot of personalities and relationships to manage!
More than ever, your experience is making me reflect on what Ferdie was saying about “living with coyotes/wolves” in our living rooms. Sometimes, dogs gotta be dogs…. but squabbles can really be tough to watch, especially if they are loud or dangerous.
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