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What's all that noise, and motion?
Hi everyone!
Recently, while at a shelter, I went to visit an approx. 1.5 year old Doby mom. Her pups were about 6 weeks old and had been separated from mom. Apparently mom was not being a good mom and was “done” being a mom to them.
Mom was described by other volunteers as “so sweet”, “loving”, “playful” etc.
As I entered the kennel (think typical metal link with neighboring dogs on either side), I was greeted with a seemingly bouncy feint and perry behavior, ears were back, to flat back to sideways. She would approach curved body and brush up against my legs and retreat.
The interesting behavior she displayed was, teeth clacking. Once she removed herself from me, she pulled her lips far back, opened her mouth wide (seriously, think alligator) and closed them with this distinct “clack” sound 2-4 times in succession. She would then repeat the approach, brush up and retreat with teeth clacking. By the second time, the neighboring dog, a Boston Terrier started to approach her side. The Doby froze, lowered her head and front body, averted her gaze with a side eyed. The Boston read all the signals and moved away. Doby mom started repeating her behaviors towards me.
Although, I was not fearful, I sensed a bit of confliction and removed myself from the kennel. I wanted to avoid an over-arousal or possible trigger stacking moment, that would have caused her to escalate. I think she was trying to tell that me she tolerated me in her kennel but was also telling me politley she was not entirely comfortable in that momenet.
Has anyone ever experienced “teeth clacking” behavior? In what context?
Have you ever encountered a behavior you were not expecting?
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39 Replies
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Looking forward to reading other people’s input. My sense is the Dobie was in conflict — it sure sounds like she was having mixed emotions. Patricia McConnell suggests teeth clacking may be a threat, but the Dobie you describe was also displaying some pro-social behaviors. Wolves are known to teeth-clack.
Gawd, it would be AWESOME to see some video footage of this! (hint, hint)
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Conflict and or anxiouness/stress/displacement energy was the vibe I was feeling.
I am also wondering if it was something about me that could have been the catalysts as several people described her as “loving” and “sweet” OR, were these the behaviors that they thought of as “sweet”. No one mentioned teeth clacking though.
Interesting about the wolves teeth clacking. Do you know if it specifically used as a threat? I think I will be going down a rabbit hole on this one!
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This is fascinating! I can’t find a reference to this specific behavior in any of my book resources…
My first thought: Always trust your gut. If you were picking up conflicting signals and an “off” vibe, then you were absolutely correct to remove yourself!
I’ve seen dogs do teeth chattering when scenting hormones and in times of high excitement, but I would not describe it the way you’ve reported this behavior… this open mouthed alligator snap sounds very much like a conflicted/threat behavior. The fact that she removed herself from you before doing so could mean that her conflicted feelings have more to do with the confinement /small space with you… it would be interesting to know if 1) anyone else got the same response or 2) does she ever offer this in a larger enclosure?
In general, Dobies can be stoic and tough to read so maybe she’s showing an escalated signal to enhance her effort?
I hope this sweet girl finds a soft landing in the world, with someone set up to meet her needs. Thanks for sharing her with us.
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Thanks for your input! I was hoping those who have more experience would chime in on this one! @virginiad , too!
Hmmm, not mentioned in any of your resources. Virgina mentions possible wolf behavior related. I will be going down the rabbit hole!
The few volunteers I chatted with had not seen this although, I am wondring how (respectfully) observant they are sometimes. Not sure she has been out in a larger space yet.
Space, neighboring dogs, barking, a possible hormonal newer mom, lack of exercise etc could have been factors combined. I still think there may have been something about me that she was concerned about, too. I always blame it on my 80’s/90’s hair! ????
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Yeah, I checked several behavior and body language resources to no avail … it’s a fascinating behavior. Your description is so good… I’m going to tag @ferdie who has a LOT more shelter experience than I do, and see if he’s seen this and has any thoughts? (He’s currently teaching a CATCH workshop, so it may be a minute before he replies!)
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“Interesting, that the clacking appeared to be not the sign of attack, but of defence and helplessness”
” yapping, whining and clacking his teeth”
This might be why i sensed confliction and an anxiousness/ displacement type behavior along with the pro-social behavior. Whining is more likely anxious and stress. It may have been stress communication without aggressive intent, that she was social and non-threatening but feeling threatened or uncomfortable in our encounter, too.
BUT, if we are not suppose to compare dogs to wolves; is it the same?
Thanks for this info!!
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BUT, if we are not suppose to compare dogs to wolves; is it the same?
Canine social signals and body language are pretty robust across various species. Where we get in trouble is assuming dogs see humans as canines. They don’t. However it’s true that some of their signals toward us look the same as if they were “talking” to another canid. I don’t see any issue with extrapolating wolf behavior to dogs if it seems fitting…
The trickiest part here is a lack of observations of this behavior in dogs, so everything I just said comes with that huge caveat.
I’m also going to tag @david since he had wonderful experience hanging out with Ray Coppinger and studying free roaming dogs. David’s another super busy person these days, so please be patient, but he’ll give us his thoughts as soon as he can.
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First of all, this is a very cool story, thanks for sharing it @jenz
While I can’t recall a specific instance of seeing this clacking behavior recently, I could swear I have seen it, and it’s almost like a silent bark. In any case, I think that you read the situation right based on all of the other body language signals you were seeing.
Also, the context makes sense for her to be conflicted. She may normally like visitors but there could be a lot of factors that make her “not in the mood”. Recently had puppies so there could be physiological/emotional changes and maybe some stress over not knowing where they are (even though she wasn’t tolerating them well). Plus, the shelter environment – it all adds up like you said Jen.-
Ah, “silent bark” – that triggered a memory for me of frustrated, tied out police-dogs-in-training who were waiting their turn for exciting things… some would bark out loud; others would do this…
Which then makes me wonder if they’d been punished for barking and so this was their pivot? Or if this was just a go-to behavior that was easier on their own ears?
In any case, that context supports this one – high arousal + frustration.
Thanks for your input, @david !
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@david
“Silent bark”- that absolutley makes sense to me as a possibility.
Perhaps she is not a dog who vocalizes and, this has worked for her in the past, as a likely quirky behavior.
I appreciate your input!
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“silent bark” is just one way to describe it based on what I’ve seen before. It’s certainly not a technical term and I don’t necessarily think it is literally a silent bark, but the way you describe that full mouth clacking, that’s what it makes me think of when I’ve seen it.
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@jenz , I checked in with another pro colleague and she happens to have a GSD who teeth-clacks when frustrated-plus-excited. For example, excited about getting outside, but frustrated that human is taking too long to put his harness on. Or, must sit at door before it’s opened and not rush through.
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@virginiad Ahhh, good to know about this context!
I wonder if we can say it can also be an energy-displacement type behavior, they are ready to go, engage, play, run etc but can not but that energy HAS to go somewhere so it comes out as teeth-clacking. Or would you still say that is frustration? (hope it makes sense what I am trying to dissect in the reason for the behavior)
Thanks so much for doing more research with your colleagues!
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@jenz , I’m guessing a dog has some ideas in mind about where he’d like to expend his energy and if that is foiled, even temporarily, one would assume there’s an element of frustration.
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Hi Jennifer,
I agree with the comments here – it sounds like conflicting emotions with high arousal/stress. Being inside the kennel with her may have contributed to the behavior along with the baseline of typical kennel stress. Hormonal changes might also be a factor. I think you did the right thing by removing yourself from the kennel. I wonder what her behavior is like with you outside of the kennel. Interesting discussion and I really like how you described the behavior objectively.
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@ferdie
Thank you for your feedback! It is appreciated.I am curious to know if you have any insight as to if the stand alone behavior of clacking teeth might be linked to a specific communication, i.e stress, displacement or excitement behavior, feeling threatened, low level warning that conflict may ensue, appeasement-type communication to avoid conflict?
I found the entire sequence fascinating. I was equally fascianted by the fact she was able to communicate with the Boston Terrier type neighbor effectively and then resume the sequence with me as if she was never interrupted. (and she did not escalate).
Thanks again!
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Wow! This thread is on fire! So interesting a subject. I’m just soaking in the knowledge being expressed here.
Thank you for sharing, @jenz! I know these are different species entirely, but I recently cat sat for a young black cat who did a clacking behavior when he couldn’t get to the butterfly that was resting on the open window. It stunned me, but he seemed frustrated. My Eclectus parrot does an EXTREMELY LOUD clacking sound when she is frustrated at me leaving the room. I know that dogs are different, but both of these situations share frustration at proximity of the trigger. Thought you’d be interested to hear.
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Thanks for sharing your experience with the cat and your parrot!
Different species for sure but, a lot of what we know about behavior can absolutely cross species! I think it is a legit thought that she could be frustrated. Confinement frustration of the kennel, barrier frustration with the neighbors on either side, as others mentions hormones may be playing a role in possible frustration, perhaps her way of interacting and being pro-social was being inhibited causing frustration. So much to think about!
I had to chuckle a little thinking about your parrot making a loud clack noise; I envision it to be their “recall” sound to get you to return! (a little human training from the parrot’s view!). Know I have to ask, do you return? ????
Thanks again for jumping in on this! Always appreciate your thoughts!
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Hey @jenz, love what you said about the parrot’s recall sounds, training the human to return! I have never thought of that, honestly. No, I usually am going downstairs when she does it and leaving the house. Sometimes she does it when I go down the hall to the bedrooms…I do “return”, usually I’m putting away laundry and such. Ha ha! A new twist on thinking about this behavior.
I think you’re right about cross-species behaviors. Animal behavior is a fascinating subject!
I also wonder about the Doby mama’s frustration at 6 weeks. Can dogs suffer from post-partum, like us? I didn’t have it with my first child, but it was horrible with my second, just about a month or so after she was born.
Post partum is something that was often misdiagnosed by humans for so long. Who’s to say animals can’t get it, too?
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A lot of hormonal changes pre and post birth, for sure. Recognizing it is important. sounds like you did!
I think getting a vet’s or animal psychologist/neuroscientist’s point of view on this would be great- to understand how this affects them vs human!
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I am eager to jump in on this convo as my daughter has a 7 month old Doberman, who I find to be an absolute delight!! His name is Duke and the name fits so perfectly! He is so full of life, beyond intelligent, always so happy and absolutely hilarious! His demeanor and disposition is like nothing I’ve seen before!
This is the first Doberman I’ve ever seen in person. Not only have I had the pleasure of watching him grow from 10 weeks old, but I’ve been training him too! We’ve done play dates with various dogs and he loves them all!!
His body language is so interesting to watch! He is so majestic and animated! I’ve described him as looking like a goat; horse; deer; bull, and he makes me think of a cartoon character who’s running and when they hear their name being called, it takes their head a second longer than the body to respond! I don’t know how to really describe it, but it’s extremely entertaining to watch!! I’ll have to see if I can get it on video!
We haven’t noticed any teeth snapping/clacking, but he does nibble on other dogs like he’s eating corn on the cob. ????????
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@Halberry124 , I love your description of the fantabulous Duke! My fave pic of him is the ‘derp’ pose while he’s sleeping. Priceless! ????
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@Halberry124
Wow- I have to say, “majestic” came to mind as the pictures jumped before reading the entire post! Great choice of word you use to describe him!
What a beautiful story and I can feel the emotions you have telling it.
I have to agree with @virginiad , although all 3 pictures show a beautiful animal, the “derp” picture of him sleeping is “priceless”!
Please keep us posted with his “derpiness” and your training! i would appreciate seeing seeing this handsome pup in some videos!
Than you for sharing his story with us!
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What an elegant looking fellow! I love that you are finding myth busters within this breed through Duke. Wonderful that he’s had you to train and socialize him from so early! Beautiful boy.
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Not sure how well this will go thru, but here’s Duke at my house while I was at work. So nice being able to chat with him and reassure him!!!
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????????????
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The happiest boy!
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OMD, hilarious, clodding around like a dobiephant!!
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@Halberry124
These are awesome!
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What a fun boy! I can tell how lovely he is. And a smart one!
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Hi everyone, I’ve seen this type of behaviour with a golden retriever and also a couple of lurchers at the shelter. What I’ve observed is more of a teeth chatter, I’m wondering if this is the same behaviour or if the clacking is more defined? It has presented mainly outside the kennel and when in a wide open field. In the golden it occurred when she became uncertain of her surroundings or felt a task too difficult (e.g. going through a doorway that was scary for her) and was often accompanied by her lying down while she assessed the situation. For the lurchers, the chatter appeared when sniffing the grass intently – perhaps smelling other dogs that had left their scent? Not sure if that has provided anymore clarity, however it’s a very interesting behaviour to observe and discuss.????
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Thanks for your observations with the Golden and Lurchers!
This is a distinct single “clack” noise vs a chatter. Think along the lines of a single big open mouth snap/close, only 2-4 in succession.
Interesting that the chatter you observed was in too seemingly different contexts, one in likely uncertaintly and the other in likely arousal of another scent?
Behavior is fascinating, isn’t it?
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Hey @jenz ! Look what I found.
➡ a real clacker! (Be sure the sound is on.)Is this like what you’ve observed with the Dobie?
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This almost seems like it was sped up but, yes, very similar!
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I agree that this looks at least 2x sped up… and if this is what you saw, then I’m going to say SUPEROVERTHETOPEXCITEMENT
WahoooOO!! ????
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